The Future... spin-off: Hosted Mod Forums

[Epistolary Richard]

Spun-off from the discussion here:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=62981

2. Too Many Mods

So many mods start up and then fail. If forums were a little more cautious in offering mod teams their own subforums this would I believe make people think more about how realistic their endeavour is; it would likely see more people joining up with stronger mods.

I would propose higher minimum criteria for mods to be accepted for hosting; though of course anyone could still put out an advert for putting together a team.

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Since the release of Rome Total War, things have changed for mod development. It used to be the case that specific mod forums tended to be on a single forum - normally the favoured mod forum of the core developers. Now, however, a single mod could potentially have forums on two, three or even as many as four or five different forums. On one of these forums they will typically have a development area and that will be seen as the 'home' of the mod, with the other forums serving a promotional purpose - publicising the developing mod to the different communities.

The benefit to the mod team is that they get to publicise their mod to a different membership - the trade-off is that the mod team have another location to update with information and answer queries, generally absorbing time from their team.

For the site, a hosted mod forum may elicit additional content, but equally there remains the possibility that a mod forum may not be updated by the team and go inactive. One can imagine that if every mod in the Forge had its own forum then there would be a bewildering number of forums the vast majority with very little content.

So, given all that, what do people think?

Is it beneficial for the overall community to have multiple forums across different sites?

If so, what should the criteria be? Should some distinction be made between mods that are being primarily developed on that forum and those mods which are being developed elsewhere and are merely being 'marketed' there?

Should a distinction be made between mods which have teams or which are largely the result of a single person?

Should a distinction be made between mods which have yet to make their first release and those where something is already downloadable?

Should the scope of the mod be taken into account? The reputation of the team? Its chances of success?

What support should a mod team expect from a site which is 'Hosting' them? Equally, what can a site expect from a mod team from which it has given a forum?

[Seasoned Alcoholic]

These are some good distinctions, and tbh distinctions are required to be in place to make sure every one has a fair chance of being given their own subforums. As mentioned by Dol Guldur, once an individual / modding team has been given the privilege of their own modding subforums, hopefully the penny should drop with regards to the responsibilities and commitment levels that a mod requires. It is frustrating for mod followers to see their mod update once every blue moon - once you've been given local moderation responsibility, you need to be responsible to keep everyone up-to-date with your project, but this is obviously at the developers' discretion.

I'll use my mod as an illustratory example in this discussion. RTG has topics at four different forums, including here @ ORG, TWC, SCC and .COM forums. Here's a link to each to illustrate:

ORG
TWC
SCC
.COM

As you can see, RTG has its own subforums @ TWC. It also has individual topics @ ORG, SCC & .COM forums. Obviously the individual topics are harder to update and consume more time because anything new should ideally be linked from the first post of the topic, so that readers can keep up-to-date on the mod's progress.

On the other hand, when you are given your own subforums, you then have the luxury of laying things out in a much more clearer way than the 1-topic-wonder: things soon become clustered and difficult to follow. If you've read the RTG topic here @ ORG, you'll see that I've jumped between various modding areas on numerous occasions - this is why it is crucial to use a progress list and keep news and announcements (with links) in the first post. Otherwise things easily become

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IMO, a major mod should have at least one forum site where it has subforum privileges. Then in any additional TW forums, a single topic is all that is required because you can simply copy and paste the latest news from your 'base' into the various single-topics (this is what I do anyway, you may call it laziness )

Exceptions could be made for truly unique projects, or ones which have a vast support base in numerous forums. It is only fair to mod followers to be able to quickly access information easily for these larger major projects, rather than read topic after topic (usually unrelated to each other) before they locate the news they're after.

[Dol Guldur]

Ultimately the forum owners will (and should) dictate the terms and conditions...


Personally I would like to see mods categorised and the requirements for hosting made a little more strict - or at least for the "less stable" mods to be given a second ranking.

Yes, I think hosted mods should be headlined and "marketed" mods relegated.

The criteria for hosting should perhaps be that the mod has a minimum number of team members, a modding plan of some kind, and perhaps some type of vouching system where someone on the board of a certain level vouches for the mod after reading the plan (or a certain number of the same). This latter should not be too hard to attain, nor too easy.

I also think there should be a category system :

Category A

Minor Mods would involve little more than retexturing

Major Mods would involve retexturing, map editing, a lot of new models

Full Conversions would involve changing just about everything

Category B

Historical - Early-era

Historical - Roman-era

Historical - Late-era

Non-historical

Category C

Imminent - public beta released

Emergent - teaser demo released

Inchoate - no demo released


Of course, this is all to be refined but you get the idea ;)

[hellas1]

Hello Modding Community!
Pre-Script: Epistolary Richard, I've found out how this forum is financed.

As I had tried, repeat "tried," to express some time ago, many, many excellent mods have been thought of and started.
The "man/womanpower" needed to complete these is in my opinion THE most crucial factor, people who know what to actually do.

From coding, to skinning, to historical research or whatever, it all requires dedication and see through to completion to make abstractions into completed, tangible projects!!

This is the reason for my frustration some time ago!
Many mods, not enough dedication. They don't die, they just fade away.....

I would pay for a mod's completion, if need be, despite people saying "You shouldn't pay for a mod." Which since the engine doesn't belong to a mod team but to Activision/Sony, this is, in a sense, true. But, what other options are there? Hmmm....

I have tried to actively involve myself with different mods to facilitate their completion. I want to see dreams become reality here in this and other forums. Artistic expression, Historical accuracy, 3d movement, now with the advent of Rome Total War, makes this a cherished place for me.

Bottom line: a little more tighter rules regarding mods in this forum about mod creation and distribution to the public. In my opinion time & lack of seriousness is the problem for mod completion.

To quote Dol Guldur "The criteria" is the issue here. Peace.

[Epistolary Richard]

Seasoned Alcoholic puts forward some good arguments as to why it's easier for the mod team itself to have it's own forum on a site for promotional purposes, rather than a single thread.

The site's concern would be - whilst their own forum would be convenient for a mod team - given the failure rates amongst mods, even mods that seem quite promising in the early stages, it will be left with a large number of little-used forms.

Equally, however, I would understand mod teams who would argue that - without a forum to call their own, it means they don't have the prestige to interest others - that in not being granted a forum it actually increases their likelihood of failure.

To be honest, I feel the choice of forum/no forum for marketing purposes (and I'd like to separate this consideration from those mods who actually want to develop here, who would most definitely need forums) is very limiting. A whole forum, in many cases, would see too much; no forum, a single thread as Seasoned Alcoholic is relatively unwieldy and less attractive and so perhaps is too little.

[Bwian]

The important factor is not just whether you have a forum, a single thread, or whatever.... it's a question of how frequently you actually update and add content. If you have a mod team, you can appoint someone to take care of this as a 'publicist', but if you are a small team, or one man operation, where do you find the time?

If a mod is active, then their forum thread should stay visible and at the top.

Personally, I think the burden of a forum al lyour own would outweigh the benefits for most mods. Should be judgement call of the Mod Leader really....with a reality check from the hoster! Where things go silly, IMHO, is when the mod teams start setting up tiny forums all over the place, where no-one visits, and only a handful register. No-one posts, no-one cares.

Forums should be granted to mods on the basis of activity in their own threads. Not their own posts....but those of others showing an interest!