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  1. #1
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tirpitz

    Quote Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
    Yeah, well. Not only the Baltic fleet. But it was the first bell.

    Consider this: Why does the USSR need a fleet in the Baltic?
    1. Imperial Russia had a fleet in the Baltic, and the USSR inherited it.
    2. To prevent enemy fleets from operating uncontested in the Baltic.
    3. To protect Leningrad from amphibious attack. Trusting in a city's defences without a mobile component somewhere is generally a bad idea.

    Also, the Soviet disposition was Stalin's idea. He was quite upset with himself for days afterwards, and fully expected a coup in response to his incompetence.

  2. #2
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tirpitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian
    1. Imperial Russia had a fleet in the Baltic, and the USSR inherited it.
    2. To prevent enemy fleets from operating uncontested in the Baltic.
    3. To protect Leningrad from amphibious attack. Trusting in a city's defences without a mobile component somewhere is generally a bad idea.
    Pan-man You're right about the "inheritance" and since the fleet was the well-spring for the revolution, it had symbolic value as well. Anyway,
    Hitler's quest for Lebensraum in the East was written down for more than 10 years before the invasion. I'm sure protecting the ore supply was another factor, but that decision had already been made.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian
    Also, the Soviet disposition was Stalin's idea. He was quite upset with himself for days afterwards, and fully expected a coup in response to his incompetence.
    Stalin worried about a possible coup because it was Wednesday, not just because of an actual malf-up. Why do you think he was so busy weeding out anybody with the remotest possibility of becoming opposition?
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  3. #3
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tirpitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
    "Originally Posted by Pannonian
    Also, the Soviet disposition was Stalin's idea. He was quite upset with himself for days afterwards, and fully expected a coup in response to his incompetence."

    Stalin worried about a possible coup because it was Wednesday, not just because of an actual malf-up. Why do you think he was so busy weeding out anybody with the remotest possibility of becoming opposition?
    Ah, but this time he actually expected it. After isolating himself for days, he crept into the meeting room quietly asking the gathered highs and mighties what they wanted of him, probably expecting to be forced into retirement at best and taken out and shot at worst. I recommend the series Russia's War, which has primary sources describing the atmosphere at the time.

  4. #4
    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tirpitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian
    1. Imperial Russia had a fleet in the Baltic, and the USSR inherited it.

    Also, the Soviet disposition was Stalin's idea. He was quite upset with himself for days afterwards, and fully expected a coup in response to his incompetence.
    Fair enough. It was still upgraded since 1917. And noone would waste money on something that is too old to fight anyway and is only capable of sinking freighter escorts....

    As of Stalin, as I said, his biggest mistake was getting Zhukov to command his HQ.


    2. To prevent enemy fleets from operating uncontested in the Baltic.
    You yourself just said those ships were pre WWI era. How were they supposed to prevent any fleet (specially the ultra-modern in comparison german fleet) from operating anything?


    3. To protect Leningrad from amphibious attack. Trusting in a city's defences without a mobile component somewhere is generally a bad idea.
    Nope. Leningrad had a whole Army Front dedicated to it. And mobile defences: cannons mounted on trains, mobile HQs, anything you can think of.
    It was impossible to attack from the sea.
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