Tirpitz

[SwordsMaster]

Because Stalin's doctrine was to push the frontiers as far from the USSR as possible so that war when it comes will not damage the motherland?

Nope. A side effect at most.

You say that pushing military resources up to the front is an indication of offensive intentions. That would imply an understanding that defensive operations would favour flexibility and depth and hence the storage of such resources in the rear. That wasn't Stalin's understanding. His mindset was still stuck in the era of defensive lines.

Then why did he ask Zhukov? If he was too stupid and Zhukov too smart, then, Zhukov as head of HQ could have stopped him. Hell, the whole HQ could have stopped him. But instead they put more planes on the airports closest to the german border giving themselves even less reaction time. Can you even get to General thinking that less reaction time means better defense?

Stalin scrupulously stuck to agreements supplying Germany with resources because he didn't want to provoke war with them. Why would he give his enemy the means of making war if he planned to attack?

Stalin needed the time. And IIRC he never supplied Germany with any of the critically important resources: oil, wood, and heavy metals. Or did he? Cant remember... It doesn't change the situation, tanks don't run without oil. And planes don't either. And the oil came from Romania, where Zhukov had been liberating ancient Russian teritory and pissing off the Romanians making them sell more oil to Hitler.

[Pannonian]

Then why did he ask Zhukov? If he was too stupid and Zhukov too smart, then, Zhukov as head of HQ could have stopped him. Hell, the whole HQ could have stopped him.

What happened to the last batch of military men who disagreed with Stalin?

But instead they put more planes on the airports closest to the german border giving themselves even less reaction time. Can you even get to General thinking that less reaction time means better defense?

At the outbreak of war, there were army commanders calling Moscow asking for orders. There had been explicit instructions that British warnings of imminent German attack was an attempt to provoke war between the 2 dictatorships in order to save themselves, and that Soviet troops were not to fire at German troops under any circumstances. That's the kind of atmosphere that prevailed in the Soviet military.

Stalin needed the time. And IIRC he never supplied Germany with any of the critically important resources: oil, wood, and heavy metals. Or did he? Cant remember... It doesn't change the situation, tanks don't run without oil. And planes don't either.

He supplied Germany with everything that was asked for. If he didn't supply Germany with anything, that's because the Germans hadn't asked for it.

And the oil came from Romania, where Zhukov had been liberating ancient Russian teritory and pissing off the Romanians making them sell more oil to Hitler.

Do you have any sources for any of this? This runs counter to everything I've read on the subject from both sides.

[Kraxis]

As Hitler rambled on, becoming more and more Soviet unfriendly (in the time leading up to the attack), Stalin sent more and more resources to appease him. That is a fact.
That included quite large shipments of oil and grain (actually a serious issue since Germany can't feed itself, even with Denmark supplying her). And I believe he also sent nikkel and molybdenum, both of which Germany had a very hard time getting hold of.

Rumania, while supplying a lot of oil, could not satisfy Germany's hunger. Why do you think Hitler gunned for the Caucasus when he couldn't cut off the head of the snake in 41? He wanted the oil.

[SwordsMaster]

What happened to the last batch of military men who disagreed with Stalin?

That is not even the point. The point is, there was even a codename for the invasion of Europe operation, ("Groza" - "Thunderstorm" in russian).

"In total, in an area of 30 by 30 km, 200,000 men, 1500-2000 pieces of artillery, tanks, and automated transports will be concentrated" - Zhukov's speech 23 dec 1940 HQ RKKA

BTW, in spring 1941, Zhukov ordered all hunter planes to airbases located 20-30 km from the border, and bombers to airbases 50-70 km from the border.

This is, with a density of over 170 planes per airbase of size 800 by 900m.

All purely defensive, of course.

Those were Zhukov's orders. On that meeting I quoted earlier Stalin did not express his opinion. He just let his generals speak to know what they think, and Zhukov didn't express his concern about an exposed defensive position.

Rumania, while supplying a lot of oil, could not satisfy Germany's hunger.

Exactly. That is why the germans developed artificial oil. You do not bother with artificial oil (because its crap) if you can get proper oil.

At the outbreak of war, there were army commanders calling Moscow asking for orders. There had been explicit instructions that British warnings of imminent German attack was an attempt to provoke war between the 2 dictatorships in order to save themselves, and that Soviet troops were not to fire at German troops under any circumstances. That's the kind of atmosphere that prevailed in the Soviet military.

Ah, yes, the famous directive number 1. It has nothing to do with atmosphere, btw. And when had the USSR been concerned about the UK anyway?

It was Zhukov's game, and directive number 2 was written too late and was dumb becasue it neither took into account the new situation (this is a day after the german invasion) and gave the army unattainable goals. Suicidal goals is a better definition.

General Pavlov, on the other hand, overrode Zhukov's stupidity, and gave the order "To behave warlike" to all his men. Which didn't do much towards organization, but you will agree is infinitely better than "Under any circumstances do not shoot". Which is the last the soldiers heard from Zhukov...