Andalusian faction

[Nacheras]

Even though it is in broken english, you are completely right. Although, most would disagree, they cannot deny that It was the Islamic world that triumphed even after the fall of Baghdad and Granada. and as it was said by prince Feisal in Lawrence of Arabia "We had Public lighting in Damascus before all of europe..."

Well, in fact all the "civilized" arab characteristics are inherited from civilized Persian and eastern roman conquered territories.

Actually, were the Eastern Romans or byzantines, heirs of the ancient roman and greek, the "parents" of the "civilized" arab patterns and the european renaissance.

[almazor]

when bagdad or cordoba was one of the big city in the world lodon was only a small vilage

[Nacheras]

when bagdad or cordoba was one of the big city in the world lodon was only a small vilage

Of course, but Constantinople was bigger and more sophisticated those days than both cities you named.

Court organization, paved roads, baths, universities, palaces, public works and so other developed facilities of the caliphate of abassids or of Al-Andalus ommeyads, were adopted from conquered persian and eastern roman cultures. Surely arabs cleverly mantained and improve those civilizated patterns, but not created them.

[almazor]

this is your opinion and i respect it,but i desagree with you ,because under ummayade caliphat curdoba was the most big and florishing city in europe,300 hammam's , 22 hospital and the capacity of the great mosque'mesquita' was 30000 maybe more than that.if you wan you can add the zahra(built by abderham III) city and zahira(built by al manzor) near cordoba.and after the falls of this city Surely castillan adopted from conquered arab culturs ,cleverly mantained and improve this civilizated patterns, but didn't created that.

[beauchamp]

Im going to have to side with Almazor, But I do belive that Constantinople was about the same size as Baghdad. And it is really pointless to try and argue who was better, because the term "better" is really based on ones opinion. I will admit, even though my ancestors were Earls in England and were famous, I would have rather lived in an Islamic country and payed the "dhimmi" tax then face persecution.

[Nacheras]

Dear friends, I didn´t talk about "better" that is a subjective word and a respectable opinion. I talk about "precursor". And in all those things you said, byzantines (and persians) were the precursors, and arabs learned from them (and were a very good pupils, IMO). There were not "public illumination" or sewers, or great palaces, or sophisticated gardens at Muhammad´s Arabia. Those things arrived to arab culture after the conquer of Persia and the south-east byzantine territories at half-seventh century.
And Byzantines learned from romans.

That´s all.
Greets.

[beauchamp]

true true...