Andalusian faction

[Nacheras]

when bagdad or cordoba was one of the big city in the world lodon was only a small vilage

Of course, but Constantinople was bigger and more sophisticated those days than both cities you named.

Court organization, paved roads, baths, universities, palaces, public works and so other developed facilities of the caliphate of abassids or of Al-Andalus ommeyads, were adopted from conquered persian and eastern roman cultures. Surely arabs cleverly mantained and improve those civilizated patterns, but not created them.

[almazor]

this is your opinion and i respect it,but i desagree with you ,because under ummayade caliphat curdoba was the most big and florishing city in europe,300 hammam's , 22 hospital and the capacity of the great mosque'mesquita' was 30000 maybe more than that.if you wan you can add the zahra(built by abderham III) city and zahira(built by al manzor) near cordoba.and after the falls of this city Surely castillan adopted from conquered arab culturs ,cleverly mantained and improve this civilizated patterns, but didn't created that.

[beauchamp]

Im going to have to side with Almazor, But I do belive that Constantinople was about the same size as Baghdad. And it is really pointless to try and argue who was better, because the term "better" is really based on ones opinion. I will admit, even though my ancestors were Earls in England and were famous, I would have rather lived in an Islamic country and payed the "dhimmi" tax then face persecution.

[Nacheras]

Dear friends, I didn´t talk about "better" that is a subjective word and a respectable opinion. I talk about "precursor". And in all those things you said, byzantines (and persians) were the precursors, and arabs learned from them (and were a very good pupils, IMO). There were not "public illumination" or sewers, or great palaces, or sophisticated gardens at Muhammad´s Arabia. Those things arrived to arab culture after the conquer of Persia and the south-east byzantine territories at half-seventh century.
And Byzantines learned from romans.

That´s all.
Greets.

[beauchamp]

true true...

[almazor]

i can give you some examples:
Yemen was one of the oldest centres of civilization in the Near East. Between the 9th century BC and the 6th century AD, it was part of the Minaean, Sabaean, Himyarite, Qatabanian, Hadhramawtian, and Awsanian kingdoms, which controlled the lucrative spice trade. It was known to the Romans as "Arabia Felix" ("Happy Arabia") because of the riches its trade generated; Augustus Caesar attempted to annex it, but the expedition failed; Persian kings were more successful and Yemen became a Sassanid Persian province in 597/8 under a Persian satrap.
and olso the biblical story of king(prophet) salomon and the Queen of Sheba (Bilqis, in Islamic tradition).who travels to Jerusalem to check out the fame of King Solomon (1 Kings 10). According to some traditions (the Biblical passage is silent), she either weds or has an affair with Solomon, eventually returning home with their child (Menelik, in Ethiopian tradition). The location of Sheba has thus become closely linked with national prestige as various royal houses have claimed descent from the Queen of Sheba and Solomon.
you did'nt know about himyarites Himyar was a state in ancient South Arabia dating from 110 BCE. It conquered neighbouring Saba in 25 BCE, Qataban in 50 CE and Hadramaut 100 CE. Its political fortunes relative to Saba changed frequently until it achieved power around 280 CE.

It was the dominant state in Arabia until 525 CE. The economy was based on agriculture. Foreign trade was based on the export of frankincense and myrrh. For many years it was also the major intermediary linking East Africa and the Mediterranean world. This trade largely consisted of exporting ivory from Africa to be sold in the Roman Empire. Ships from Himyar regularly traveled the East African coast, and the state also exerted a considerable amount of political control of the trading cities of East Africa. The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea describes the trading empire of Himyar.

The last sovereign Tubba Himyarite king, (Arabic: Dhu Nuwas) is often considered to have converted to Judaism. His war against the Ethiopian Aksumite Christians in his kingdom, resulted in a famous massacre in Najran. Other Ethiopian and Himyarite Christians at Zafar were massacred. Emperor Constantine informed King Kaleb of the Ethiopian Kingdom of Aksum about Dhu Nuwas's actions, encouraging him to intervene. Around 525, Kaleb invaded Himyar and defeated the Jewish King, but his first viceroy was later removed by Abraha, an Aksumite General. Abraha later recognized Aksum's dominion over him and continued to rule Himyar until 570 CE. A coalition of Yemenis and Persians later replaced Aksumite governance with a Persian one. In 632 CE Himyar was absorbed into the Islamic empire.
ok thanks for replays

[Nacheras]

thank you, almazor, for the interesting historic information