A Toe in the Water (Redux)

[Louis VI the Fat]

Negative. In eight-year-old style: France drastically needs some reforms, especially in the economy, especially in labour laws. President is a lame duck. Prime minister tries to show off with a solution to the massive protests of last year: new labour law that would mean less youth unemployment to increase integration. It is the wrong law at the wrong time by the wrong person. Even more massive protests follow. PM is a lame duck now too. Reform from the right therefore unfeasable. After all of this the left will certainly not go into the elections next year with a program of economic reform. So nothing will change when change is what is needed most, country will fall behind even more, making people even more uncertain, which makes them cling on even more to current social rights. So:

Pwnd.

[Louis VI the Fat]

But I am positive about the prospects of the nation of Gah and its direction.

[Pindar]

Negative. In eight-year-old style: France drastically needs some reforms, especially in the economy, especially in labour laws. President is a lame duck. Prime minister tries to show off with a solution to the massive protests of last year: new labour law that would mean less youth unemployment to increase integration. It is the wrong law at the wrong time by the wrong person. Even more massive protests follow. PM is a lame duck now too. Reform from the right therefore unfeasable. After all of this the left will certainly not go into the elections next year with a program of economic reform. So nothing will change when change is what is needed most, country will fall behind even more, making people even more uncertain, which makes them cling on even more to current social rights. So:

Pwnd.

Do most French want a more flexible economic model?

[Divinus Arma]

Oh man. This thread went off the deep end.

I like the topic. Let's focus on the topic.

I hereby declare the war of petty philosophers over. And the winner is...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

...all of us in the backroom, since the silly posturing and one-up-manship is over.

I know France is also suffering under immigration problems, especially middle eastern males. How does the economic situation relate for you in that respect? I know they aren't "doing the jobs the French won't do".

[Divinus Arma]

I know France is also suffering under immigration problems, especially middle eastern males. How does the economic situation relate for you in that respect? I know they aren't "doing the jobs the French won't do".

...tryin again...


Hey Louis!

[Louis VI the Fat]

Hey Louis!

I know France is also suffering under immigration problems, especially middle eastern males. How does the economic situation relate for you in that respect? I know they aren't "doing the jobs the French won't do".

The Poles are doing the jobs the French won't do. But I don't mind them, in fact I love any guest workers. If you've got a skill that is wanted, if you can do a proper job for a competitive price - by all means come over and earn yourself some decent money.

On a personal scale, either an immigrant is well-integrated, in which case he's not detrimental to my personal economic situation but a source of wealth, or he isn't, in which case he's not an economic competitor at all.
But on a larger scale, I'm not that thrilled to indefinitely carry the burden for an immigrant underclass that constitutes over 10% of the total population, and I don't care where they are from.

The problems with immigrants are a strain, but neither they themselves nor immigration itself are the cause of France's malaise. The immigration issues are only a part of a much greater general feeling of decline.


The Economist has a great article in line with this thread: 'France faces the future'.

The country's politicians need to level with the French people on the need to embrace change

“THE French constitute the most brilliant and the most dangerous nation in Europe and the best qualified in turn to become an object of admiration, hatred, pity or terror but never indifference.” Thus did a young Alexis de Tocqueville describe his motherland in the early 19th century. His words still carry a haunting truth. Over the past few years, as other western democracies have shuffled quietly along, France has by turns stunned, exasperated and bemused.

Do give it a read if you are interested in this subject, it is excellent.

[Divinus Arma]

That was good. It provides an important window into European concepts of liberal and conservative, which, of course, are indeed very different from the U.S. definitions of those two phrases.

The Economist is a good mag.

[LeftEyeNine]

Soulforged, Che has fans in Turkey no less than he does in Europe. He is the symbol of revolution globally indeed.

[Soulforged]

Soulforged, Che has fans in Turkey no less than he does in Europe. He is the symbol of revolution globally indeed.

Interesting LEN, it puts everything in perspective, a globalized perspective.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Do most French want a more flexible economic model?

That question translates into French as: 'Should France succumb to a neo-liberal Anglosaxon model?'

Read her forehead for an answer:

Or read their lips:

[Soulforged]

Che Guevara as a symbol of protest in Europe???? WOW I didn't know he expanded so well. I wonder, and maybe you can tell me, just as an emotional figure, because El Che reprents other ideologies, but why not Rousseau, Proudhon, Voltaire, or the other thousand philosophers that made France so famous?

[Louis VI the Fat]

Che Guevara as a symbol of protest in Europe???? WOW I didn't know he expanded so well. I wonder, and maybe you can tell me, just as an emotional figure, because El Che reprents other ideologies, but why not Rousseau, Proudhon, Voltaire, or the other thousand philosophers that made France so famous?

Because El Che has the looks of a rockstar and Rousseau that of a creepy old man?

You didn't know that that Che Guevara picture is such an icon? It's as famous as Mickey Mouse's ears or a Coca-Cola bottle. Che Guevara must be one of the globalised world's most lucrative brands. I hope that by some delightful irony Guevara's relatives are secretly making a fortune out of selling all those 'El Che' t-shirts, flags and buttons to those no-logo anti-globalists.

[Soulforged]

Because El Che has the looks of a rockstar and Rousseau that of a creepy old man?

Oh but Rousseau was a young man once, with the spirit of a rockstar.

You didn't know that that Che Guevara picture is such an icon? It's as famous as Mickey Mouse's ears or a Coca-Cola bottle. Che Guevara must be one of the globalised world's most lucrative brands. I hope that by some delightful irony Guevara's relatives are secretly making a fortune out of selling all those 'El Che' t-shirts, flags and buttons to those no-logo anti-globalists.

I did, what I didn't know was that his symbols were used in Europe as well. You see I'm an alien to Europe beyond TV images (and I usually don't watch news) and books.

[Pindar]

That question translates into French as: 'Should France succumb to a neo-liberal Anglosaxon model?'

From the Economist:

"...the objective of the students and public-sector trade unions is to prevent change, and to keep France the way it is."


"In another startling poll, however, whereas 71% of Americans, 66% of the British and 65% of Germans agreed that the free market was the best system available, the number in France was just 36%. The French seem to be uniquely hostile to the capitalist system that has made them the world's fifth richest country and generated so many first-rate French companies."


"The choice belongs to France. A bold effort at renewal that could unleash the best in the French? Or a stubborn defence of the existing order that will keep France a middling world power in economic decline? "

Do you think France will opt for the "stubborn defence" noted above? Is there an alternative being discussed in French political circles that has any following?

[Louis VI the Fat]

Is there an alternative being discussed in French political circles that has any following?

As usual, France has the alternative of putting her destiny in the hands of an agressive foreign midget with delusions of grandeur: Nicolas 'maybe France is wrong, and the rest of the world is right' Sarkozy.
Sarko.

He is one of the main contenders for the presidency next year. Highly controversial, he is loathed by the left. As he's a Gaullist, he's not my natural prefered candidate, but I can't help but enjoy his style.

And he did Chirac's daughter once.

[Tribesman]

And he did Chirac's daughter once.
And Chirac being Chirac will probably be wanting to do Sarkozys daughter , wife and mother .