New unit at the .com: Huscarls

[ivoignob]

http://www.totalwar.com/community/hus.htm

[Furious Mental]

I was hoping for a bloody great two handed axe but looks good nonetheless

[edyzmedieval]

They look nice....

But what are they fighting with?

[Duke John]

Don't worry, they will of course perform a jump and twirl attack for pure awesomness!

But what are they fighting with?

An one-handed axe perhaps...

[Zatoichi]

Very nice - I imagine that with the multiple heads you can stick on these units, at least some will end up with helmets.

Now we can start up a 'horned helmets are not historical' thread, just like in the old days!

[Darren_Shan]

wow these own!

[Dooz]

Wowee, I can almost smell the blood these guys will procure from the enemy. Look great.

[The_Doctor]

Strangely enough I am reading an Osprey book about Medieval Scandinavain Armies 1300 to 1500. I just finished 1100 to 1300.

He needs:
A helmet.
A bigger shield, maybe with a guige, and maybe it should be a different shape as well.
A bigger axe or a sword.
The sleeves on the hauberk could be longer to protect his lower arms.
Mail mittens to protect his hands.
Some slits along the sides of the botton of the hauberk, so he can move better.

Other than that it is fine.

[Dooz]

Strangely enough I am reading an Osprey book about Medieval Scandinavain Armies 1300 to 1500. I just finished 1100 to 1300.

He needs:
A helmet.
A bigger shield, maybe with a guige, and maybe it should be a different shape as well.
A bigger axe or a sword.
The sleeves on the hauberk could be longer to protect his lower arms.
Mail mittens to protect his hands.
Some slits along the sides of the botton of the hauberk, so he can move better.

Other than that it is fine.

All that having been said, for a TW game it's great. There'll be variety among the unit of these troops anyway so some of those things are bound to show up. Even if not, I'm still happy. Medieval Auctoriso'll take care of it .

[lancelot]

Nice lookin unit.

All I really wanna see is the Varangian Guard, those guys are gonna kick serious ass! (and I want the ahistorical fancy armour from the MTW1 info parchment...that was so sweet!)

[The_Doctor]

All that having been said, for a TW game it's great. There'll be variety among the unit of these troops anyway so some of those things are bound to show up. Even if not, I'm still happy. Medieval Auctoriso'll take care of it .

Maybe I will look at this mod.

If they are royal troopes they should be called hirdmen.

[Taurus]

That unit looks awesome, love it!

[Dutch_guy]

If these are going to be the equivilant of berserkers in Rome then this is a great improvement - these Huscarls look less cartoony than the Rome berserkers.

[Darren_Shan]

same with me

[Kraxis]

It is funny that such an axe has never been used in Denmark for war.

There is a reason there is a weapon called the 'danish' axe... why on Earth not use it? Or the 'bearded' axe??? They had it quite well done for the pictures of the units in VI (or even the Viking in MTW).

Well, I just don't like him very much. Nothing with him tells me he is a Huscarl, just and armoured man with an axe and a small shield.

This is not nitpicking, this is downright out of the question. This man is NOT a huscarl.

[Divinus Arma]

This man is NOT a huscarl.

Then show us one.

I like this one. My fave so far. I think the "pretty factor" is astounding but I am most considered about gameplay. Improving seige balance is probably my biggest concern. In RTW it was nearly impossible to lose a seige when defending. On the attack it was also far too easy because the AI units acted with no regard to their own safety. Not even basic strategy. Major immersion and fun killer.

New pic at the com:

[The_Doctor]

Then show us one.

http://www.regia.org/huscarl.htm

[Dooz]

Maybe some of the other models will have that look. In any case, I still love the unit.

Divinus, there's a whole topic about that pic here somewhere. Plenty of similar discussions about that unit with it's bulky lance and whatnot. Ah, humanity. How predictable.

[Furious Mental]

A Danish axe and/ or a great big kite shield would go down a treat. Hopefully they will be able to form a shield wall. Also a mercenary unit would be good.

[Darren_Shan]

wow those cav look great!

[Kraxis]

A Danish axe and/ or a great big kite shield would go down a treat. Hopefully they will be able to form a shield wall. Also a mercenary unit would be good.

A shieldwall with those shields? You have got to be kidding me.

I'm glad that you guys like this unit, but I don't. I would prefer if he was called Armoured Axeman since he seems to be in line with the Swordsman.

A Huscarl was the supreme warrior of the king (of course the king's bodyguards might be better). There is no chance he would be without a proper helmet or a big shield (round or kite). This man is an odd mix of a lower level warrior and a nobleman. The hauberk is noble but the rest is lower level.

The axe is as I said very odd, such an axe was just not used. Why not use the plethora of axes that were used instead of making up an axe that just looks foolish? Bah!

The shield... Ahhh... The simple fact is that the shield was considered the most important piece of equipment if you had it all (of course it wouldn't help you much if you had no weapon). Without the big shield you couldn't form the shield wall, which was the main formation. Individual fighting (in battle) was, as always rather unlikely, when it happened it was mainly done with twohanded axes.
This man can't enter a shield wall because his shield is too small to offer enough protection when it is immobile, and his axe is simply too small to offer him any advantage in a fight.

Give him a bow and sling the shield onto his back and I might be willing to accept him as some sort of Royal Archer.

[Orda Khan]

A shieldwall with those shields? You have got to be kidding me.

I'm glad that you guys like this unit, but I don't. I would prefer if he was called Armoured Axeman since he seems to be in line with the Swordsman.

A Huscarl was the supreme warrior of the king (of course the king's bodyguards might be better). There is no chance he would be without a proper helmet or a big shield (round or kite). This man is an odd mix of a lower level warrior and a nobleman. The hauberk is noble but the rest is lower level.

The axe is as I said very odd, such an axe was just not used. Why not use the plethora of axes that were used instead of making up an axe that just looks foolish? Bah!

The shield... Ahhh... The simple fact is that the shield was considered the most important piece of equipment if you had it all (of course it wouldn't help you much if you had no weapon). Without the big shield you couldn't form the shield wall, which was the main formation. Individual fighting (in battle) was, as always rather unlikely, when it happened it was mainly done with twohanded axes.
This man can't enter a shield wall because his shield is too small to offer enough protection when it is immobile, and his axe is simply too small to offer him any advantage in a fight.

Give him a bow and sling the shield onto his back and I might be willing to accept him as some sort of Royal Archer.

Ditto

......Orda

[The_Doctor]

I had already said more or less the same thing in my first post.

I thought huscarls had gone obsolete by the medieval period?

[Divinus Arma]

Interesting. Thanks The Doctor, for providing me with that link. I can see your arguments now. Maybe there will be a more advanced huscarl and this is a lower nobility unit.

Is the time period early enought to have these guys?

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Hopefully this will get me interested in Medieval history. I already know a bit about the crusades, but I'm lost other than that...

[Martok]

I agree that while the unit looks cool, there's no way that's a Huscarle. Any other inaccuracies aside, the axe and shield are both far too small. [sigh] Oh well. I'm sure someone will fix it soon enough after the game comes out.

[Divinus Arma]

Wouldn't a larger axe be virtually impossible to weild with one hand? Think of the weight. It would be cumbersome and difficult to control. It's balance with the heavy metal end makes it even more of a challenge to handle with proficiency. I think that the challenge of using the weapon effectivley is compounded by the presence of other folks in your unit all doing the same thing. It would be like herding cats.

[The_Doctor]

Wouldn't a larger axe be virtually impossible to weild with one hand? Think of the weight. It would be cumbersome and difficult to control. It's balance with the heavy metal end makes it even more of a challenge to handle with proficiency. I think that the challenge of using the weapon effectivley is compounded by the presence of other folks in your unit all doing the same thing. It would be like herding cats.

The Danish axe, which the "huscarl" should have, is a blood big two-handed axe.

This should answer you question:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_axe

[Kraxis]

Wouldn't a larger axe be virtually impossible to weild with one hand? Think of the weight. It would be cumbersome and difficult to control. It's balance with the heavy metal end makes it even more of a challenge to handle with proficiency. I think that the challenge of using the weapon effectivley is compounded by the presence of other folks in your unit all doing the same thing. It would be like herding cats.

Yes, but like the Varangians they didn't use them at the same time. The shield was usually slung onto the back when the axe was being wielded in two hands.

In formation the first rank would use their swords (which they all carried in addition to the axe) instead, and the next rank their axes. Pretty nasty results.

Of course javelins were not uncommon while in formation either.

Interestingly RTW couldn't handle shields being slung onto the back, while MTW certainly could (Varangians of both types, Swabian Swordsmen, Huscarls of both types and of course the Jomsvikings). Perhaps that is where the real problem lies? They haven't been able to recreate the situation in MTW?

In any case Huscarls had both big axes and large shields.

[EDIT] Something I just realized was, that the unit presented is somehow both heavy infantry and at te same time a mobile light infantryman. He does not fit into the center of a battle (where he can't use his mobility as well), his equipment tells me he should be on the flanks, a position Huscarls never had.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

The historically-accurate 2-handed swords would have looked flashier than this unhistorical unit.