Roman Civil War

**tk-421** · 04-09-2006, 19:50

I had a really good idea (I think), probably not for 0.8 yet but for some future release. I don't know if this is possible with 1.5 or if the EB team would consider it.

With the extra faction slot make a second Roman faction that does not exist at the start of the game (that is, if 1.5 allows emerging factions). I don't know what you would call it but it would represent the Republicans. Each Roman general would have either an Imperial or Republican trait. This trait could affect which historical ancillaries the general would get. After the Marian reforms have taken place and a general with the "imperial" trait wins so many battles or receives a triumph or something, than the civil war starts. All of the generals with the imperial trait stay under the control of the player and those with the republican trait join the second Roman emerging faction. After the player defeats the Republican faction, the Imperial reforms take place and the faction leader takes the title "imperator."

**Moros** · 04-09-2006, 19:54

I don't think that will be possible.

**Teleklos Archelaou** · 04-09-2006, 20:14

I just can't see us giving up a faction though. We would love to include a lot more than we currently have, and if we are trying to represent 272 as well as we can, we will probably insist on using all possible faction slots for one that is in place in 272.

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 04-09-2006, 22:24

Not to mention it forces the player into becoming Emperor.

It would put me right off and anyway, "Republican" and "Imperialist" are lables applied to historical characters by modern historians.

Although every General could have a trait showing which party he favours, but even that is an anacronism for the start date.

**tk-421** · 04-09-2006, 22:33

Originally Posted by Wigferth Ironwall

Not to mention it forces the player into becoming Emperor.

I think that there is a way to switch factions in game. Maybe there is someway that the player could choose when the time comes, I doubt it though...

It would put me right off and anyway, "Republican" and "Imperialist" are lables applied to historical characters by modern historians.

Although every General could have a trait showing which party he favours, but even that is an anacronism for the start date.

Of course they wouldn't be called "Republican" or "Imperial" in game, I just wasn't exactly sure what to call them. Maybe the traits couldn't be acquirable until the Marian reforms or some other date (if possible)?

**QwertyMIDX** · 04-09-2006, 23:00

Originally Posted by Wigferth Ironwall

Not to mention it forces the player into becoming Emperor.

It would put me right off and anyway, "Republican" and "Imperialist" are lables applied to historical characters by modern historians.

Although every General could have a trait showing which party he favours, but even that is an anacronism for the start date.

Been reading Gruen have we?

To be serious though, I agree, even labels like "Caesarean" and "Pompeian" are very problematic before the civil war is actually raging.

**Cheexsta** · 04-10-2006, 12:08

I actually had a pretty similar idea for RTR (particularly the unofficial conversion project for 1.5). The idea is to use a single spare faction slot to represent a Roman Republic that is spawned via a script (which I believe is still possible in 1.5, not sure). The city of Rome can have a "Senatorial building" of sorts that, should the player demolish it, would start a civil war. So the civil war itself would be completely optional for the player, you don't have to try to become Emperor at all.

Then you could have an "Optimates" and "Populares" trait for each general; depending on which one a general has, he would have a higher chance of joining the "Roman Republic" faction once it emerged (of course, I'm not even sure if this is possible; presumeably it would be possible via Loyalty, though). Once the Republic faction emerged, roughly half of the empire would be split (based on a random percentage, though), and you'd have to fight to regain the empire. Your faction leader would also gain an "Emperor" trait once Rome has been taken.

Anyway, that was what I had in mind. It would be quite fun, I think :)

**Cataphract_Of_The_City** · 04-10-2006, 16:22

I think that playing as the Romani without having to take into account the extremely complex historical goverment system of the Roman republic is dissappointing. That's where the essense is. The centuries long struggle between the Senate and the plebs. Optimates and populares. The spirit of the Republic. The Roman thirst for their city's glory. Someone doing the unthinkable and tearing the fabric of the republic. Playing as the Romani should be frustrating, as Roman politics where, calculating, as every Roman politician had to be to run and win in the cursus honorum.

**Teleklos Archelaou** · 04-10-2006, 16:25

If we had a system that would allow such a thing, you would probably see it. Too many things, like the inability to kill your own characters off or have them killed against your will, the inability to give real negative bonuses to buildings (and thus govt types), the inability to have special events pop up and have the human player choose different options to take, all of this sort of stuff is totally out of reach for us and anyone else. We'd love to have that, but we don't, so we make do with what we do have.

**Scott** · 04-10-2006, 22:21

What if EB upgraded to the RTW:BI expansion(which I don't have)?Isn't there a thing in the BI where if a city relvots it is possible to become a new faction?
If you do use RTW:BI(If you do it should be called EB 2) you can have some some Itallian cities relvot against Rome and maybe give the player a choice switching factions(I don't think that's possible) or somthing elese.

**Keba** · 04-11-2006, 08:47

The problem with BI is that it uses a faction slot for the 'rebel' faction. The second one is that it comes into play whenever a city, any city, of the 'mother' faction revolts.

Besides, since there is no way for you to choose the faction, there is no point. Not all people (and by this I am mainly refering to me) are interested in having Roman Emperors (although Emperor is a bit wrong, after all Caesar was a Dictator Perpetuus, Augustus was Princeps, no true Emperors until way later), and would, if presented with a choice, choose the Republic over the Empire.

**Ludens** · 04-11-2006, 11:32

While it would off course be great to play a Roman civil war I am not entirely sure whether I would want to surrender a faction slot to that. After all the Romans were hardly the only ones who suffered a civil war.