Defeating elephants

[orangat]

Elephants are ridiculously overpowered in RTW. I find that the only reliable way to stop them is by using onagers. Fire arrows and javelins just don't cut it with war and armored elephants. I'm really tired of sieges with elephants in the main square.

What I did was to invade Africa first and put gaul/germany on hold to kick out two elephant factions before they became really bothersome.

[Grumfoss]

Just a silly question but is your RTW game running the latest patch?

I used to have lots of problems with Elephants with the original RTW but now with 1.5/1.6 patch I find that they tend to run Amok fairly easily with lots of flaming arrows.

[x-dANGEr]

Elephants? Ooh okay.

1) Fire arrows: I don't know why you say they don't work, but they do work, they do work rather effectively.

2) Javelins: Just get some Cavalry Auxilia, and they'd do the job.

3) Morale: Eles morale attack is too strong, yet their own morale is too weak. One simple thing to do is to surround them with your units, usually getting them stopped by 1 of your infantry units, then swarming them from the back with cav will rout them.

4) As you already said, just get an onger flamed rock to land on one of them :)

General Tips:

When fighting an ele, it's best to have your men set to loose formation, minimizing the losses you can get out of this fight. Eles are quite not effective alone, if you can lure them out of an army then swarm them, your troops will make a short work out of them.

[orangat]

Yes I've got patch 1.5 installed.

Fire arrows work very well against normal elephants but war and armored elephants are need about 3 units of archers to rout a single unit of elephants reliably.

[Drusus Magnus]

They're not overpowered. When I play Carthage, that unit of elephants you get in the beginning is what keeps me alive in Sicily. Look at the other units, they all blow. Seleucids have a lot of other powerful units though, so I'm not sure wether they actually need armoured ones.

[orangat]

I don't think Carthaginians units blow. The sacred band phalanx is 2nd best pikemen in the game after Spartans. The sacred band cavalry is probably 3rd best after armored cataphracts and praetorian cavalry. Carthage don't have archers but elephant tactics of closing quickly with the enemy don't really need archers.

If you compare Carthage vs Seleucids, Seleucid's 1 turn units are weak. Carthage's Poeni infantry and long shield cavalry are significantly better than the Seleucids phalanx pikemen/greek cavalry.

[Drusus Magnus]

Their advanced units are pretty good, yes. But have you ever fought those in a campaign? Carthage always gets whiped out by the Scipii in my campaign in the first 30 years, because all they can muster are those weakling iberian infantries.

[orangat]

Their advanced units are pretty good, yes. But have you ever fought those in a campaign? Carthage always gets whiped out by the Scipii in my campaign in the first 30 years, because all they can muster are those weakling iberian infantries.

Its not the fault of the units, its the fault of the AI for not changing old weak units for stronger ones and keeping up with the Joneses. The AI tends to hold on to weak units until they get destroyed in fighting.

[Helgi]

Yes I've got patch 1.5 installed.

Fire arrows work very well against normal elephants but war and armored elephants are need about 3 units of archers to rout a single unit of elephants reliably.

I find that horse archers work pretty well, If I play the Greek States, Macedonia or the Julii, I find a way to get horse archers, then get them to my best army. then I get ready to attack my closet enemy. With the horse archers I can rout the elephants easily, providing I have some skimishers and light cav/hvy cav. nearby, so I can concentrate my fire on the elephants.

[Severous]

First elephants I fought cost me dear. I killed everything else the enemy had then swamped the remaining elephants. Still have visions of those elephants charging my infantry and swinging their heads from side to side as they ploughed through.



Second battle was better prepared. Troop mix was better. Archers with fire arrows seemed to make a big difference.

[orangat]

The problem with fire arrows is that it doesn't rout elephants reliably before elephants start plowing through as opposed to just 2 units of onagers. Having an archer heavy army (6+ units) is risky since it takes away slots for heavy infantry.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Javelins work. I think you may be not sacrificing enough troops to bringing down the elephants. How many units to take down a unit of elephants do you think?

[Nebuchadnezzar]

A hoplite/phalanx front line (recruitable or mercenary) with javelins behind will quickly and effectively dispatch any elephant army with minimal casualties. If you want, have some archers with fire arrows behind the javelins but these are not essential. Fire arrows will cause elephants to rout only if elephants are at least winded. Using archer only armies is reckless and relies more on luck than anything else. If nothing else is available militia hoplites are sufficient to rout elephants with minimal losses but never allow the elephants to hit you from the side or rear as the consequences are terminal. Preferably you want to make them run amok so that they wander into their own lines causing further devastation.
This hoplite/phalanx/javelin formation is also extremely effective against chariots.

[Drusus Magnus]

I tend to go for a "standard" Roman battleline. Hastati, principes, triarii with some velites up front. Just send them way ahead of the battleline in skirmish mode towards the elephants. Velites are cheap. I think maybe once I lost an entire unit because the enemies had 3 family members charge it. But only one elephant lived and it began running amok on the edge of the map.

Elephants are supposed to be hard to kill, they're also very expensive early in the game, so no wonder you can lose a unit or two trying to bring it down.

[x-dANGEr]

Javs drop them like flies really. But what's bad when they in in the town plaza is that you don't get too much space to jav them, espiecially when the plaza is stocked with enemy units.

[Severous]

I like Javlin Cavalry. The Numibian areas have mercenaries for hire. Just so happens to be where you need them to counter Carthage Elephants.

[Ludens]

On a related subject: exactly what does an elephant do when it runs amok? I would expect it to head away from the battle, but sometimes they come back for another run through your or enemy troops. On one occasion (patch 1.2,) I even saw one going amok at the start of a siege battle (it was part of the garrison), head out of town and wander around somewhere in a forest at the edge of the map. Can they actually leave the map in this state?

Does anyone know a relaible way to drive them off or are they just rampaging around randomly?

[Cras]

for some reason elephants always seem to stamp on my guys when they go amok.... weather I am fighting them or if they are a unit of mine.

[x-dANGEr]

On a related subject: exactly what does an elephant do when it runs amok? I would expect it to head away from the battle, but sometimes they come back for another run through your or enemy troops. On one occasion (patch 1.2,) I even saw one going amok at the start of a siege battle (it was part of the garrison), head out of town and wander around somewhere in a forest at the edge of the map. Can they actually leave the map in this state?

Does anyone know a relaible way to drive them off or are they just rampaging around randomly?

I think they tend to follow the unit closest to them and engage it. So you can use that to your favor. (Send a cav unit, and lure them into the enemy's forces).

[Severous]

Hi

'Where do elephants go when they run amok'

I recall five running amok events since ive been playing RTW.

1) Enemy War elephants routing from Jav Cavalry. They were in the plaza. Instead of staying in the plaza they 'amoked' through the streets and seemed to be following my Jav Cav. Well at least they went in the same direction..along the same road. The archers on the elephant continued to shoot at me. When my JavCav got to the city wall it turned right whilst the 'amok' elephant went out the gate and off to the edge of the map. It didnt leave the map.

2) Open field battle. Javlins and fire arrows caused an enemy Carthage elephant to amok into its own army and move to far map edge. Never semed to come towards my troops.

3) Enemy Scythed chariots. Amok from open field battle..went to far edge of map.

4) Enemy Scythed chariots. Defending in a town. Amok on a road near the plaza. Went towards plaza, acoss a corner of it and out of town along another road.(killing loads of its troops in the process). Went out to far edge of map.

5) Enemy Scythed chariots. Amok inside a town near the gate I was going to assault through. They came out through that gate and killed my troops on their way out to 'my' map edge.

So I see them going in a direction...just not sure how to predict it in advance.

[Ludens]

Interesting. So amok units head for the map edge (more or less, though their path towards it is a bit eratic), but seldom pass over it and (possibly) like to stick to the closest unit.

[Avicenna]

Eles blow in EB: in all my custom battles with them, they always get destroyed or made to go amok before reaching the enemy =.=

Can dead eles crush soldiers beneath them to say kill a general?

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Javs drop them like flies really. But what's bad when they in in the town plaza is that you don't get too much space to jav them, espiecially when the plaza is stocked with enemy units.

That's why you sit back and pelt them with arrows. Draw them to you

[Ludens]

Can dead eles crush soldiers beneath them to say kill a general?

Yes. Happened to me twice.

[Avicenna]

Its not the fault of the units, its the fault of the AI for not changing old weak units for stronger ones and keeping up with the Joneses. The AI tends to hold on to weak units until they get destroyed in fighting.

The AI's units are usually more advanced than mine are.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Wait, you said Onagers are the easiest way?...

Only if you have a full stack of only onagers! Those things are so inaccurate!

[Kagemusha]

Why hurt the Dumbos. Elephants are nice.