Discussion: Koyoto and Canada

[Vladimir]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home

I post this link here mainly for discussion (and because of boredom).

I’ve never heard of The Globe and Mail before but they are quoting a seemingly credible source. Apparently Canada, a Koyoto treaty signatory, has seen CO2 levels rise while the US, not a signatory, has seen a decline. Anyone want to offer any speculation as to why?

Instead of reducing the levels of greenhouse gas emissions as specified under the Kyoto Protocol on climate change, Canada has seen an actual increase, [Environment Minister Rona Ambrose] said.

The United States, which reneged on the original Kyoto deal, actually has a better track record cutting greenhouse gases than does Canada, Ms. Ambrose said.

Have at it folks!

[Redleg]

I’ve never heard of The Globe and Mail before but they are quoting a seemingly credible source. Apparently Canada, a Koyoto treaty signatory, has seen CO2 levels rise while the US, not a signatory, has seen a decline. Anyone want to offer any speculation as to why?

Well it might be from the recent elections in Canada.

[Fragony]

How on earth does a huge country like Canada with a thinly spread population fail to meet the Kyoto norm? Heck, we have about the same amount of people living in a country roughly the size of New York, we have a healthy industry, and we appear to reach our targets if the wind doesn't come from Belgium or Germany....

[Vladimir]

Well it might be from the recent elections in Canada.

I think you may be right. They don't call Chicago the windy city because of the weather.

Check out this vitroil in the Toronto Star:

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...d=970599119419

I don't think they get it. Canada can stop ALL production of CO2 tomorrow and it wouldn't matter. Countries like China, Russia, India, etc don't care about it. Crippling the economy of any "western" nation just to meet these guidelines may actually increase the production of this gas as the dirtier, developing countries will only increase production to fill the void.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Apparently Canada, a Koyoto treaty signatory, has seen CO2 levels rise while the US, not a signatory, has seen a decline. Anyone want to offer any speculation as to why?

Have at it folks!

This will probably get shred apart by more informed Orgahs, but one reason could be that while the US economy is growing, US industry is not. It is in fact shrinking somewhat I believe.

Also, I have a hunch that it are mainly low-value added, labour intensive and heavily polluting industries that are being outsourced or outcompeted most.

Both should reduce CO2 emission by themselves, without any conscious effort.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

To immediately reduce my brilliant analysis above to a load of rubbish: none of it explains why Canada's CO2 levels actually go up then. Would the situation for Canadian industry be that different from the US? Maybe, but I don't think so.

Meh, I need more information on declining industry in the west and CO2 levels, but am too lazy to look it up.

[Byzantine Prince]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

How on earth does a huge country like Canada with a thinly spread population fail to meet the Kyoto norm? Heck, we have about the same amount of people living in a country roughly the size of New York, we have a healthy industry, and we appear to reach our targets if the wind doesn't come from Belgium or Germany....

It has to do with per capita pollution not per acre.

We live mostly in very industrial cities like the Toronto area, and Lower Quebec. These places require huge amounts of cars for people to get where they need to be. Also the car industry is huge in Canada.

[Vladimir]

Louis does have a point that our manufacturing jobs are being outsourced. The problem I constantly hear about is our vehicle emissions and the constant pressure to raise the MPG standards.

You won’t hear me say this often but I think we need to be more like France *washes mouth with bleach…spits* . They’ve proven that the majority of your electricity production can safely come from nuclear reactors and even though we have a lot of coal, nuclear is cleaner.

[Duke Malcolm]

Perhaps there is just a southerly wind?

[BigTex]

This will probably get shred apart by more informed Orgahs, but one reason could be that while the US economy is growing, US industry is not. It is in fact shrinking somewhat I believe.

Also, I have a hunch that it are mainly low-value added, labour intensive and heavily polluting industries that are being outsourced or outcompeted most.

Both should reduce CO2 emission by themselves, without any conscious effort.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

To immediately reduce my brilliant analysis above to a load of rubbish: none of it explains why Canada's CO2 levels actually go up then. Would the situation for Canadian industry be that different from the US? Maybe, but I don't think so.

Meh, I need more information on declining industry in the west and CO2 levels, but am too lazy to look it up.

It would have more to do with U.S. companies investing in cleaner forms of producing energy. Canada's industry have little reason to change, they don't recieve the uproar our industries do for polluting. And if they do they can always mention their southern naeighbor and distract everyone. Nuclear power isnt always the best choice, you actually have to move the waste it produces somewere, and should it leak your screwed. Using clean forms of coal is a better idea. With all the new devices they have to stop pollution, if they were all enforced there would be little emmisions from coal plants.