D-Day

[Csargo]

We are learning about D-Day in School and while my teacher was talking about it I was wondering. Was it possible for the Germans to kick the Allies out of France when D-Day first began and if so what kind of shape would the Allies have been in afterwards.

[Brenus]

Of course it would have been possible. However, The Germans were in difficulties in Italy, the second landing in Provence (South France) would have received all the reinforcement, and the Russians would have push, well, like they did. Hitler’s Germany was doomed when she didn’t succeed in Russia.
Now, Perhaps the map of Europe would have been different, perhaps all Germany under Russian Control, fall of Greece under Communism…
In our Countries we got use to underestimate the power of the Russians. I know it is difficult to admit, but like for Napoleon, it was the Russians (or the Soviet Union) which defeated Hitler. Just have a look to map to see where the Red Army was in June 1944.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Well there was a small penninsula in which the allies had trapped the Germans. In this space they pushed the germans back far enough that they were in range of allied ships off shore.

Also, I think the germans had anticipated an invasion too far east instead of Normandy. The lack of troops might have been why the allies got a beach head. I'm not sure why they couldn't push them out though. I would think the germans would be able to, but who knows?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...sion_Force.jpg

[Kraxis]

An Allied loss at D-Day was possible, if not too likely given the superior amount of materiel the Allies poured into it.

So I'm off to talk about a situation where the Allies had indeed been thrown into the sea.

That woud likely have been the worst possible scenario for Europe.
Germany would still be in serious trouble. The Allies would not come running to the table over such a defeat. They would retreat and plan for new operations.
But those operations would take time, and until then only the planned ones could be carried off, if not too securely.

So we have a huge Allied army still sitting in England, just edging to get over the little stretch of water. This would force Germany to keep the garrisons in France in place. Of course some more mobile units could be transported to the east, but they would be far from enough to halt the Russians. A few divisions might even get sent to Italy, bogging the Allies down once more.
But ultimately Germany would still lose, but this time she would basically only lose to the Soviet Union, which due to the transfer of troops (and lack of the opposite later) would suffer more losses, and would feel a right to all of Europe if not just a much larger share than they got historically.

Personally that would mean I would have been speaking Russian as my second language rather than English (it was damn close even in the historical events).

[Keba]

D-day merely accelerated the fall of the Third Reich, the war was already lost. Naturally, with D-day things ended up better, rather than 50 or so years of communism (and that can mess up a country big time, I speak from experience), a good part of Europe was captured by western democracies.

IIRC, wasn't it the allied generals who gave the operation 50-50 chances of success?

[Csargo]

An Allied loss at D-Day was possible, if not too likely given the superior amount of materiel the Allies poured into it.

So I'm off to talk about a situation where the Allies had indeed been thrown into the sea.

That woud likely have been the worst possible scenario for Europe.
Germany would still be in serious trouble. The Allies would not come running to the table over such a defeat. They would retreat and plan for new operations.
But those operations would take time, and until then only the planned ones could be carried off, if not too securely.

So we have a huge Allied army still sitting in England, just edging to get over the little stretch of water. This would force Germany to keep the garrisons in France in place. Of course some more mobile units could be transported to the east, but they would be far from enough to halt the Russians. A few divisions might even get sent to Italy, bogging the Allies down once more.
But ultimately Germany would still lose, but this time she would basically only lose to the Soviet Union, which due to the transfer of troops (and lack of the opposite later) would suffer more losses, and would feel a right to all of Europe if not just a much larger share than they got historically.

Personally that would mean I would have been speaking Russian as my second language rather than English (it was damn close even in the historical events).

So what your saying Kraxis is that if D-Day would have failed for the Allies then Europe have been most likely all Red after WWII?

[Kagemusha]

So what your saying Kraxis is that if D-Day would have failed for the Allies then Europe have been most likely all Red after WWII?

Well The Soviets didnt stop until they met the Western Allies.They would have eventually "gave freedom" to all Western Europe.Without the Allied advance in Western Europe.