An invasion of Egypt, battlefield style.

[Dayve]

Just passing time and attempting to provide some entertainment whilst i wait for the next patch so i can start a campaign as my favourite faction, the Romani.

Anyway, here we go.

- The current situation.

- The objective, simply, invade the ptolemaic empire and make that part of the map black, which in turn will make Macedon the richest and most powerful, untouchable faction on the board.

- The armies:

*Army group Memphis (named so because the last city they will capture in this operation will be Memphis, the Ptolemaic capital) Consisting of 960 phalangites, 240 heavy infantry, 160 light infantry, 360 skirmishers and, due to their expense, only 50 cavalrymen.

*Army group Axum (named so because the last city they will capture in this operation will be Axum in the south east) consisting of exactly the same numbers and troop types as Alexandreia.

*Reinforcement army, 480 hoplites, (Taxeis) 720 phalangites, 360 skirmishers, 50 cavalrymen.

- The leaders.

* Demetrios, commander of army group Memphis, son of Antigonos who united all of the Greek peninsula under one Makedonian king. At 27 years old, Demetrios is the current king of Makedonia, dull, uncharismatic and lacking in the vitality department but caring, loyal and optimistic, his troops have confidence in him and he is rated a 2 star commander. He conquered the last city in Greece owned by the Epirotes and also conquered the city of Sardika in the north.

* Chrysoloras, commander of army group Axum, adopted son of Antigonos, conquered Thermon 10 years ago and hasn't done much else since. He is the heir to the throne and the complete opposite of Demetrios. He is intelligent, charismatic and not at all lacking in the vitality department. He is selfish, pessimistic and disloyal though. This man has the strange belief that he rules his own destiny and not the gods, but his men have faith in his abilities as a commander as he has won battles in the past where they odds were stacked against him. He is a 2 star rated commander.

* Dionysios, nephew of Demetrios and grandson of Antigonos, only 17 years of age and has yet to see battle. Commander of the army of reinforcements and not intended to do any fighting. He shows superb governing talent, being sharp/charismatic and vigorous as well as unselfish/optimistic and loyal, one day, provided he doesn't get himself killed in the invasion, he will be king of the Makedonian empire we are (hopefully) about to forge.

- The offensive strategy. Simple really.







-The strategy for occupation.

After a city is conquered, a type 4 (Allied state) government will be installed immediately so some local troops can be levied incase they are needed and for garrison duties. Units from the reinforcements will be left behind as garrison troops or failing that, mercenaries will be hired to do the job. Any form of rebellion or failure to go home and not cause trouble in the newly conquered towns will simply result in an extermination. No human rights protesters here thank you very much.

The potential problems -

* Carthage. Allied to the Ptolemaics, if they came to their aid and attacked my rear, my dreams of conquering Egypt may very well be short lived.

* The Greek peninsula has been left mostly undefended apart from minimal garrison troops, every man has been sent to fight in Egypt.

* Small navy consisting of only 6 fleets in its entirety and no money to expand it as that money is needed to hire mercenaries.

Progress - Read through this thread and thou shalt see.

[Dayve]

First update... I have clearly angered the gods, my first battle, a siege... My whole army group Memphis Vs. a general and one unit of Those elite Ptolemaic pikemen guys... The plan was, knock down the gate and part of the wall, charge my general in to pin down the enemy general (the pikemen were at the town center) and then charge in my 50 cavalrymen into their rear, wiping them out pretty quickly... My king died literally within 2 seconds of combat starting... He was the first one through the gate and gallopped straight on to the enemy generals bodyguards pike... That was the end of him.

At the town center i pinned the elite Ptolemaic pikemen with a unit of Pezhetaroi, unloaded two units of akontistai's javelins into them, then a unit of Thureophoroi's javelins into them, then charged their rear with the hypasts and thures at the same time... The fight lasted a long time and they ended up killing more of my men than i killed of theirs... Not many though.

Anyway i took Paraitonian and decided that 5519 of its inhabitants should be murdered as vengance for my kings death... An allied state government was installed and it's taking all of army group Memphis' reinforcements to keep the city at blue hapiness face with low taxes. The now 19 year old Dionysios is in charge of AGM and is laying siege to Alexandreia.

Meanwhile in the south, My new king won a heroic victory when the besieged army inside Amonion was called up as reinforcements when another Ptolemaic army attacked mine, which left the city entirely undefended for me to simply walk in. No extermination though as the city only has a population of just over 1100. An allied state government has been installed and this city is also taking all of AGA's reinforcements to keep it from rioting... AGA is marching towards Hibis and by the looks of things it'll fall easily.

Total casualties so far (not including generals bodyguards) - 292. Total men at the start of the campaign - 5150.

[abou]

That sucks about your king. I remember I was playing as Armenia in the vanilla 1.5 recently and I charged with my Armored General Unit at a failing rebel Eastern spearmen unit, from behind no less, and about two seconds in my General died. I was pissed.

Good luck with the ongoing campaign, though. You're strategy seems solid and from the looks of it, the Ptolemaioi are busy against the Seleukids.

[Dayve]

The strategy did seem solid... But don't they all, on paper? When the fighting starts the shizzle always hits the fan. One thing i overlooked was the fact that Cities in that area are always unhappy with anybodys rule, and it takes a lot of time and money to passify them, and eventually they will grow big and start rioting... I don't honestly think i'll have a problem conquering the Ptolemies but i do believe i will have a lot of problems keeping them happy afterwards.

Edit - I just captured Alexandreia and got 2 nice messages in the generals traits.





I'm just going back to Pella now to take the body and then i'll post what happens in here with a screenshot.

[Dooz]

Move the capital closer. If that fails, let them rebel and exterminate as necessary. Or not. This isn't a helpful post at all really. Did you expect one? I don't believe so as you never mentioned any expectations. So really, meaningless is the appropriate word. I enjoyed the initial strategies and whatchamahoos. How will the rest of this invasion pan out? I'll await your posts to find out, naturally.

[Dayve]

Pear shaped! That's how it's going! The Cartheginians have come to the aid of their 'allies' and have laid siege to one of my cities along the north coast which name i forget... There's a good chance it can repel the attack as it has all of AGM reinforcements garrisoned there, although the Carthies have a lot of mercenaries and elite troops... My tactic of phalanxing up the streets may not work since i have only taxeis hoplites and phalangites and no commander.

My faction heir is on his way back to Pella with the body of Alexander the mostly lucky, and has become a drunkard giving -1 command, so now he has 0 command, minus 1... Although he will be returning to Egypt with an army, can he get back in time? I doubt it.

In Egypt, AGA is doing well, has conquered Hibis and is laying siege to the city just east of it. AGM is camped in Alexandreia with no commander, awaiting the return of the drunkard with -1 command so they can continue their march to Memphis, which i fear may never come. Total casualties so far not including generals bodyguards or mercenaries, out of the 5150 men that we started with, 862 are dead, leaving 4288 of my original invasion force... Bear in mind however that out of these 4288 men, 1610 were reinforcements, 70% of which are besieged inside Paraitonion, the other 30% of which are garrisoned in Amonion and Hibis and can't be moved or i am 100% certain those places will rebel against me. Also a whole army (army group Memphis) is garrisoned in Alexandreia with no commander, so subtract another 1100 or so from that 4288, which leaves me with only around 1100 men (army group Axum) that i can effectively do anything with, and they are tied up in the south east...

The only option i have is to move on Memphis with a captain leading the army group there but i have no general in the area so i cannot hire mercenaries to garrison Alexandreia which means i'll have to leave a substantial amount of AGM in Alexandreia to stop it from rebelling which means my attack force will be weak and without a general... But it's a risk i will have to take unfortunately.

Anyway it's bedtime for me now so you'll all have to wait around 12 hours for any more developments i'm afraid.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

I think it's possible to not return with the body immediately. I think you could have carried out more of the campaign first and then later returned with the body, but then I've never done it and I don't know who has.

I really like this presentation by the way. It's very interesting!

As for the king's death, I thought it was only the AI who charged their generals into the massed speartips! Glad this is shaping up to be a difficult slog though - more entertaining for the rest of us! It would have been nice if Kyrene was still rebel though, and you didn't have to worry about allies coming to help (even though that is sorta cool - seeing alliances actually work, even though it is against you). It would be nice if you got a new adoption or man of the hour at this point though.

I wish we had this new thing we have been discussing in effect - it has to do with type4 governments and would greatly affect your campaign, but it's not implemented yet.

[vizigothe]

I will have to keep this in mind since at present the Ptolemaic Empire at present being my sole contender in the race to have the largest empire, Roman arms won't stand for their continued existence much longer.

[Dayve]

Well, here is the latest update. Army group Memphis had an opportunity to capture their final objective as a large Ptolemaic army marching towards the area turned to fight the Seleukids in the north. A captain led army laid siege to the city but were attacked by an army of Ptolemy, only a small one though. A heroic victory was won by my captain with a loss of only 274 men, not including mercenaries. The enemy army was mostly made up of mercenary phalanx units and without a commander they broke and ran as soon as they were flanked.

Meanwhile in the south, army group Axum has captured Pselkis, but only after a tough fight in which 761 men were lost, including all cavalrymost heavy and light infantryand is no longer an effective offensive force, until reinforcements arrive from army group Memphis or mercenaries can be hired.



My drunken future king got a +2 influence trait saying he was the protecter of Alexandros the mostly lucky and will set sail for Egypt again in a turn or two.

Just a note to the EB team, those Ptolemaic heavy phalanx guys, Kleurchoi Agemata i think they're called, are wayWAY overpowered, with the same stats as my best Makedonian infantry(Hypaspistai) and double the number of men(120), they fight to the bitter end in every battle, even when surrounded, subjected to a concentrated barrage of javelins from behind from 2 full units of Akontistai, charged at with cavalry, they never break, and if they do they choose to fight to the death. They need to be reduced in size or in stats or something because they are ridiculously overpowered.

If i had been facing full stack armies instead of half and quarter stacks and they had 5 or more units of these guys there would be absolutely no way in hell i could win unless the almight gods came down themselves and gave machine guns to my men.

[Malrubius]

My drunken future king got a +2 influence trait saying he was the protecter of Alexandros the mostly lucky and will set sail for Egypt again in a turn or two.

Glad that's working for somebody!

[QwertyMIDX]

Just a note to the EB team, those Ptolemaic heavy phalanx guys, Kleurchoi Agemata i think they're called, are wayWAY overpowered, with the same stats as my best Makedonian infantry(Hypaspistai) and double the number of men(120), they fight to the bitter end in every battle, even when surrounded, subjected to a concentrated barrage of javelins from behind from 2 full units of Akontistai, charged at with cavalry, they never break, and if they do they choose to fight to the death. They need to be reduced in size or in stats or something because they are ridiculously overpowered.

They don't have the same stats as the Hypaspistai, they have lower defense and while there attack number is higher that's because of the way the phalanx formation works in RTW.

Kleruchoi Agema: 13, 6, 5 = 24
Hypaspistai: 14, 8, 5 = 27

A unit size decrease is probably a good idea though.

[L'Impresario]

Edit - I just captured Alexandreia and got 2 nice messages in the generals traits.

Sorry to drive this I bit toward the Bugs/Errors forum, but I just wanted to point out that "Nielos" should be Neilos. Can't help nitpicking at times
(And the third sentence seems somewhat strange, so many texts though, polishing them all : a nightmare).

Please continue

[Sdragon]

In my Roman campaign with the early troops I've been beating 20 unit stacks worth of them in a seasonally basic. With some Galatians and Companions mixed in. Allot of the first stacks having 3 gold chevrons worth of experience. It’s a tough fight but I've been winning. Although my Roman troops have to go back home to Italy after every couple of battles to retrain. I'm happy with them staying as they are.

[Dayve]

In my Roman campaign with the early troops I've been beating 20 unit stacks worth of them in a seasonally basic. With some Galatians and Companions mixed in. Allot of the first stacks having 3 gold chevrons worth of experience. It’s a tough fight but I've been winning. Although my Roman troops have to go back home to Italy after every couple of battles to retrain. I'm happy with them staying as they are.

When you say early troops you must mean stackfulls of early triarii because these Kleurchoi agemata guys will rip through early hastati and principes, and with 3 gold chevrons there's no way, sorry. I've had one unit pinned down by three units of Pezhetaroi, fighting with swords, thrown all my akontistai javelins into their BACKS, charged them with Hypaspistai and cavalry at the same time, caused 50% casualties and STILL they turn around and start to rip through my cavalry and hypaspists, i don't even want to think about what a 3 gold chevron unit would do.

[Dooz]

What battle difficulty are you playing on Dayve?

[Sdragon]

Just a historical formation I used. Had 2 units of early Triarii and yes my Hastati and Principes(sp?) got ripped up often. First couple of battles I lost till I got things together. I had about 3 units of Numidian cavalry (Much none cavalry that I would have liked but not much choice in Africa) with 2 of Equites with general. 3 units unload Javelins and then everything piles in. They don’t break first time so pull back when you start getting hurt. Once they show their backs again charge again. Should be enough to break them if the general isn't near by.

Its easier if the enemy have cavalry since they die so quickly and the general/captain is a part of the unit, it makes the rest of the army far easier to break. Then once its down to their experienced troops just mob them with loads of troops, once your behind them the early Romans with a bit of experience can grind them down.

If they decide to fight to the death just pull back so they can rout and chase them down. I have never seen the uber pikemen fight to the last even with full experience. A tip with early Romans is to stay on guard mode so they don’t all pile in. Fewer troops are getting pikes in the face that way and they can hold for ages. Heck, doing that the Rorii(sp?) can hold for some time.

Yes if there are lots of highly experienced enemies on the field it can get close. Just peal anything that isn't pikemen away from the main force and destroy them, after that your cavalry and slingers can do what the heck they like.

[Dayve]

Well my slingers have been depleted after years of campaigning and in a siege battle i forget to move them from the gate and the enemy charged in and cut them down entirely so i have barely any left. I'm playing on medium battles wonder... Hard would be a bit too difficult. Also, out of 8 units of phalangites in each army i started with, 6 units were taxeis, only 2 pezhetaroi in each stack, most of which are now dead.

[Clovis]

I've found the Kleurchoi Agemata to be really tough, but not unbeatable. As Macedon, I try to pin them with those black shield phalanxes and them use theuropodi (sp?) to hammer the flanks. I also try to isolate them and spread them out chasing cavalry.

As a note, I play with medium battle difficulty

[Dayve]

That's mostly what i'm doing Clovis, but the Ptolemies have some o0ba generals, 5+ command stars the lot of them, and they don't seem to be attacking me, they wait until the battle is almost over! The AI showing some intelligence for once, and causing me many problems! I love it.

Anyway, a quick update.

[Sdragon]

That’s a shame, the slingers are great for weakening the high experienced uber pikemen when shooting from behind. (Ironically kill more per shot than Javelin throwers who have more attack power and more attacks since they have more men.) Plus slingers with some experience take Companions down easily. Their general can charge and die, and stand still and have a much slower death, if you run out of ammo he'll be almost alone and will fall to a cavalry charge. Without him those pikemen won’t stay around if things get tough.

[Dayve]

We must be playing different games... These pikemen for me are fighting to the death with or without a general...

Another quick update before i go to bed.

I've taken another city in the south-east, just one more Ptolemaic city there now. I can't go all the way to Axum though because there is a strong rebel army there and my forces won't be strong enough to take it, instead that army is going to march north and take the last Ptolemaic city In Egypt west of the Arabian peninsula. Alexandreia and Memphis have had type 2 governments completed there so i can recruit pezhetaroi and light infantry, which is greatly helping the cause.

The Cartheginians have declared war and have 2 armies in my west, sieging towns and whatnot. They are causing real problems, hiring up all the mercenaries before i get a chance. Paratonion on the coast is well defended but Amonion if attacked will fall as it has only a 4 unit garrison, 2 akontistai and 2 taxeis phalangitai.

Perhaps Chrysoloras will march west once Egypt is secured and bring ALL of Africa under the rule of one Makedonian king? If he can do this before his death (he is 46 now) he will be the new Alexander! Afterall, he has conquered most of Egypt and the rest of Africa is a big place... Chrysoloras the great... I like it, conqueror of all Africa... I like it a lot.

[Krusader]

Can only say...You should be thankful that you haven't faced the Basilikon Agemata then, dayve

[Dayve]

Can only say...You should be thankful that you haven't faced the Basilikon Agemata then, dayve

Surely Makedonia should have some kind of elite phalanx unit? Pezhetaroi simply don't cut it when fighting against another factions eliteness.

Another update.



Dionysios has come a long way since the invasion started when he was 17 years old, he's now the second best commander in all of the Makedonian empire, although Chrysoloras' son is heir to the throne, and since Chrysoloras conquered most of Egypt that makes his son, governor of Sardis (North of Greece) Heir to all Greece and Egypt, leaving Dionysios who has conquered a large portion of Egypt with nothing except for the prspect of being faction heir once Chrysoloras dies, since Dionysios and Chrysoloras' son are around the same age, Dionysios will never be king.

So, since i'm playing as realistically as i possibly can, and i can't have a split empire run by two people, i've made Dionysios the heir to Greece, and Chrysoloras' son the heir to all of Egypt, since his father conquered it once he dies it will belong to him, and their future sons will rule the two empires for as long as the bloodline continues. Pity the game wasn't more true to life or the situation i have made would result in some very interesting civil wars later on with the Dionysios family claiming it owns part of Egypt since their father conquered it and all those in charge squabbling etc. But we'll have to wait a good few years before we get a game like that won't we?

Anyway in the picture, Dionysios with his army recruited from the Greek populations of Alexandreia and Memphis and hired mercenaries has fought his way through Ptolemaic troops south towards Dispolis-Megale and the city will fall soon. Alexandreia has been made temporary capital city of the Makedonian empire to try to make the population of Egypt happy, which it has done. Once i conquer Kydonia then that will be the capital as it is inbetween Greece and Egypt.

Chrysoloras has conquered Blemmyes in the south-east but cannot go any further to Axum due to the large Cartheginian armies threatening my western territories in Egypt, both of which are under siege so his army is needed there. The Ptolemaics are broke, according to the faction screen finance thing, and i can tell because their armies of Kleurchoi Agemata are being replaced with armies of Peltasts and Pantopadoi. They are so poor that their pantapodoi have to pretend like they have spears when really they have no weapon in their hand... Although i suspect this may be a graphical error. The Ptolemies control only 5 cities now, 4 when i conquer Dispolis-Megale and 3 when i conquer Salamis, but their other 4 cities are very rich in resources so there is a chance they may re-establish themselves east of Egypt.

[Moros]

I loved this. Verry nice. I'm in the mod to do something like this too...
I know I'll do the same but with the casse .

[Clovis]

Dayvve - loved the report. I've never really fought in Egypt itself, but I may have to put off burning Selucia to do it.

My current game as Macedon, I'm fighting Egypt and Selucia at once (plus Armenia), and the only reason I've survived is the invention of large-scale piracy, sailing up and down the coast, landing, exterminating cities and then retreating. I've gotten Alexandria down to 800 people I've burned it so many times.

[Dayve]

The good thing about fighting as Makedonia in Egypt is that there are tons of phalangites and thureophoroi to be recruited as mercenaries although you have to get to them quick or the enemy recruits them.

The bad things... Unless you bring a ton and i do mean a TON of extra units (something i couldn't afford to do) then you'll have to wait in each city you capture for a long time to establish a government because they are very rebellious, which is historically accurate i guess... And the mercenaries here are too expensive to hire and then leave sitting around as garrisons... I brought, apart from my two main armies, just the one stack of 'reinforcements', which contained mostly taxes hoplitai which i was going to use as garrisons, some taxeis phalangites to use as reinforcements, but barely any light/heavy infantry which i needed the most. The fighting was thickest in the south-east... Taking Alexandreia and Memphis was easy, in the south east my army quickly got depleted and had to wait in one of the cities for reinforcements which i had to bring all the way from Greece.

Oh hey and Gert - I'll look forward to your thread on the Casse, i love reading things like these. Start off with a little about the family members involved etc. like i did, it was inspired by the history channels 'Battlefield', where they tell you about the leaders, the armies, the situation, then document the battles. Love that show.

[Dayve]

Well ladies and gentlemen... It's done. Dionysios and Chrysoloras, and a lot of dead men, have conquered Egypt. There have been victories, defeats, and despite the worst possible start, (my king dying) Egypt now belongs to Makedonia. But for how long? The Cartheginians are still being a nuisance in the west, cities in the south are unhappy with their new rulers and in the east, a defiant Ptolemaic faction (can't call them an empire anymore) refuses to pay me an unreasonable amount for a ceasefire and the right of trade with the great Makedonian empire. The armies inside Egypt are worn out and small in numbers... Can enough new men be raised from Memphis and Alexandreia in time to push back the Cartheginians and secure borders? Eventually yes, but the Carthies may take a city or two first!

I'll release my hard work in the interesting saved games thread for anybody who may want to admire it.

[abou]

Maybe you should just demolish the cities and pull back to Greece. Now is your chance to retrain and conquer regions closer to your capitol. Gaining control of the Adriatic, Ionian, and Aegean seas should help your economy greatly and deprive neighboring powers of the trade from that area.

[Dayve]

Chrysoloras would be very angry at your words. He has spent much time and lost many lives conquering Egypt! And now you are telling him to abandon his conquests!? NEVER! Carthage is next, and then Asia Minor! Apart from the Seleukid territories there, unless they attack me i will not attack them, same with Dacia.

Besides, i chose to invade Egypt because i wanted it to be difficult... I'm tired of playing easy games where i conquer the next city along, leave a garrison and then move on to the next..

[Krusader]

Surely Makedonia should have some kind of elite phalanx unit? Pezhetaroi simply don't cut it when fighting against another factions eliteness.

Eventually Makedonia will get Argyraspidai along with the Seleukids.

Nice posts btw. Fun to read.