EB April Preview

[Swabian]

finally i get my dirty fingers on this forum too. mhehe.

on topic: this creature is a stylized reindeer and the faction could be sakae/skythians or the turkomans, but i don't understand why the yuezhi are going to get replaced at all. their influence on east asia was decisive, meanwhile the skythian peoples played a relatively unimportant role compared to the sarmatian/alanian tribes. also if the skythians/sakae are introduced, the yuezhi should actually be in the game too, since they had a major influence on the former (caused migration).

edit: is the eb-team supporting the thesis that the denominations 'massagetae' and the 'yuezhi' are eponymous?

[Angadil]

on topic: this creature is a stylized reindeer and the faction could be sakae/skythians or the turkomans, but i don't understand why the yuezhi are going to get replaced at all. their influence on east asia was decisive, meanwhile the skythian peoples played a relatively unimportant role compared to the sarmatian/alanian tribes.

The reason for the replacement of the Yuezhi is actually quite simple: there is very susbtantial doubt that they were actually present in EB's map in 272 BCE. There is some controversy on that, but the general view is that they did not occupy areas of EB's map until about a century after game start. Hence, having them there in 272 BCE would likely be historically incorrect. For some additional elaboration see this thread.

also if the skythians/sakae are introduced, the yuezhi should actually be in the game too, since they had a major influence on the former (caused migration).

You seem to use "skythians/sakae" as if designating a single people. That is not very useful in the context of the discussion of potential EB factions. Even if "Scythians" is used relatively often to designate a large conglomerate of iranian-speaking nomads sharing a certain number of cultural traits, such an heterogeneus group would not be really eligible for a faction slot in EB. We don't have a "Celts", or even "Gauls" faction, but Casse, Aedui, Arverni... The same thread to which I referred above also has some additional comment on the terminology around the iranian steppe nomads and how EB uses it.

edit: is the eb-team supporting the thesis that the denominations 'massagetae' and the 'yuezhi' are eponymous?

You mean both names sharing references to the moon? Not really. Our Chinese expert is quite conclusive about Yuezhi = Moon People not being really adequate, being nothing more than a direct translation of the characters, not being the earliest name under which this people is referred in the Chinese sources and not taking into accoun the differences in pronounciation between old and present Chinese. The opinion about the etymology of Massagetae is not unanimous and Massagetae = Mah Sakata = Moon Sakas is just one several suggestions. I personally find an alternative one, Massagetae = Maz Sakata = Great Sakas, somewhat more appealing.

Oh, and welcome to this forum.

[Swabian]

Oh, and welcome to this forum.

thank you

the yuezhi didn't (or most likely did not) play any role on the EB map until, as you allready said, 100 years after -272 or so. but later, they conquered baktria and bacame a very rich and quite powerful realm. one can of course argue, that they are halfway out of the timeframe and even might have not appeared on the EB map at all, but on the other hand, they could have appeared earlier with almost the same probability, since they knew of the alexandrinian realm and (it's parts nearby) and they had enough reason and ability to attack baktria during earlier times, didn't they?!

yah of course the skythian peoples cannot be seen as a uniformity or something like that, but i didn't mean all the folks in the whole steppe, i meant certain tribes that would be of relevance in this case,but any further discussion here would be irrelevant, since the scythian peoples are not suitable for a playavle faction (which i never suggested/stipulated). there has been speculation about the new faction being the skyths...pfwfwhmb

i think the massagetae were allready absorbed by the sarmatians in the EB period, so what could be the new faction then if not the turkomans or turkwhatever ...hmm
edit: but actually... i'm not sure, but there could have been a small group left that still carried the massagete identity. they could try to reunite the old confederacy in order to rule the steppes again. this would be an ideal initial condition for an interesting faction. hmmmmm... but i remember that someone said it wouldn't be a barbarian faction. but i mean.. quisque barbarus est aliquo ;)

[Ludens]

the yuezhi didn't (or most likely did not) play any role on the EB map until, as you allready said, 100 years after -272 or so. but later, they conquered baktria and bacame a very rich and quite powerful realm. one can of course argue, that they are halfway out of the timeframe and even might have not appeared on the EB map at all, but on the other hand, they could have appeared earlier with almost the same probability, since they knew of the alexandrinian realm and (it's parts nearby) and they had enough reason and ability to attack baktria during earlier times, didn't they?!

The subject came up in earlier thread that unfortunatly had to be closed, but the gist of the argument was that even if they were present on the EB map at the start of the game, their focus would be east, not west. They only turned west when their position as local steppe power had been lost to the Xionghu. Thus, to accuratly represent their situation, one also needed to include Xionghu, Han China, etc. This is not an option, so I am quite happy with the decision to drop them alltogether. Still, I wouldn't mind seeing them as an emerging faction or a scripted event.

[Jolt]

To be honest, the first faction that came to my mind from that was India. Hehe. I'm probably wrong though. I just hope it's really Bartix. :P

[orwell]

I'd actually like to see India and the Mauryans included, there was a strong proposal for it for RTR but it never went over. Add them and clear out a little of central europe and if not representing the entire sub-continent, at least give it a decent wealth value as a condensced form of its riches. But that'll never happen. I don't really see a deer, the supposed antlers look more like intertwined snakes to me. Besides no deer I've ever seen or heard of had a tail like that.

[Steppe Merc]

yah of course the skythian peoples cannot be seen as a uniformity or something like that, but i didn't mean all the folks in the whole steppe, i meant certain tribes that would be of relevance in this case,but any further discussion here would be irrelevant, since the scythian peoples are not suitable for a playavle faction (which i never suggested/stipulated). there has been speculation about the new faction being the skyths...pfwfwhmbuo

Why, just out of curosity? I assume you mean because the Scythians (the Western Iranians that the Greeks knew) were pushed West and into the Crimea by the Sauromatae and became settled, at least those that were not absorbed?