First thoughts.

[aleh]

So, I've been playing for a couple of days now, and I gotta say I'm impressed with the game. And here's what I think about it at first glance if anyone cares to comment.

- Slow, god it's slow! The battles are fine, and even the regular campaign screen is fine to a certain degree, but the time between turns is so slow, and let's not even talk about load times. It seems to go faster the longer you play, but it's all good, EB does need to have at least one downside, right?

- I've been playing as the Romans(the only reason I picked up the game when I first bought it anyway) and I gotta say I'm impressed here. The level of immersion and whatnot is excellent. Also, there was something that I found pretty cool, which is when a character spends some time in a settlement with a primary deity, they sorta adopt that deity. Like 'governs best in a settlement with Vesta/Ceres....'. At first, I thought it was odd, bu t then after thinking it over, realized it could be the family member thinking that since the 'appropriate' deity is not being worshipped to the full extent, bad mumbojumbo will happen. A small turnoff is when the generals give their pre-battle speech, he says that they're Greeks or some such. But hey, it's all good. What's the Latin Voice Package that I downloaded though?

- Why is it that people consider the Gaesatae ridiculous to fight? I mean, they're very hard to take down, but they don't deal that much damage. And I'm playing on medium/medium(that's the recommend setting right?)

- I love that even after several years, I'm still very much in a tough fight. I'm not in any critical danger since the main body of the Italian Peninsula is pretty much all mine. With Segesta/Arretium/Aminium/Rome(why is it losing so much cash?! :D)/Capua/Can...iumsomething/Taras under my control(after a -tough- battle following a long siege with the Epeirote garrison). I'm laying siege to Bononia, and since it's got two turns left to stand, I expect to be attacked either this end turn or the next. I've also landed an army near Lilibeo(I think) since Rhegion/Mesaana/Syracuse are packed with rebel armies and small stacks, and I couldn't go through it. Lili's the only settlement that Carthage has in my "sphere", and I thought about taking it, and after a turn or two, going back east to take Syracuse/Mesaana and send part of my Bononia army down south to reinforce whatever will be left of this army.

- Yup, you've heard it, since about 268/267, I've been in my version of the Punic Wars. I've yet to lose a land battle to Carthage, and I'll probably take Lilibeo(with the Heir no less!), but out of about five sea battles with them, I've only won one. Either my navy sucks, or theirs is very good. Which kinda is bad because they kept besieging my Western Med cities and disrupting my economy.

- Speaking of which, I can build up armies at a pretty decent rate, and I can even support a fleet, two at the very most. But I don't really have a guaranteed economy that'll carry me through most of the worst of times, which means that my cities sorely lack development. But don't get me wrong, I love this, it's still very much a struggle.

- Speaking of struggles, man, alliances are hard to come by. I've only gotten Pontos, and either Arverni or Aedui, and one other faction to accept(I think). But luckily, I can get trade rights easily. I can't seem to bribe anyone, not even rebels. And I'm trying with seven/eight/nine(and perhaps even ten) laurelled diplomats. And my spies aren't as good as they were in RTW, which is good because it wasn't really all that realistic.

- For the two sieges I have, I'll force both garrisons to attack me after having built up several battering rams. My plan is to sorta make an 3rdcentBC laager(I think that's what it was called), where during the battle I'll arrange the wagons on either side of my main force so as to force a frontal fight, and I'll be able to better flank them. Does that make sense to anyone? After these two sieges, and after clearing the rebel rabble from southern Italy and Sicily, I'll settle down and just save up and build up my cities with an army at either end(Sicily/Northern Italy) and one in the center for those 'just in case' situations.

- Family members. I know it doesn't happen like in RTW, but to confirm, the only way I can get a new one is to have my forces commanded by a Captain right? Wouldn't it make sense if after a while, a city left unoccupied by family members would have a chance of offering up a character for adoption(sorta of like a local magistrate who stepped up to the plate and deserves promotion)?.

- That's about it. I love the realism of EB, and the toughness and whatnot. Definately my favourite of all TW games.


P.S. Question. I know I should destroy some sort of building after having conquered a new settlement. But, what building are we talking about exactly? Like, religious temples of other cultures, should I keep them? How about buildings that allow me to build units that I otherwise wouldn't?

Long Live Rome! :)

[Dayve]

You should destroy the previous factions government building in a new city and build your own. To be realistic you should build a type 4 at first which takes only 2 turns and is basically just an alliance with that city, then as time goes by upgrade it... On the peninsula you can build type 1 government which is like complete Romanization, but out of the peninsula you can built only type 2, 3 and 4, the further out you go you will only be able to build 3 and 4...

Another tip, don't blitz, especially not when you've just started... You'll just end up behind everybody else technology/city wise since you'll barely be able to build anything... Also the recommended difficulties are VH/M... You will get new family members eventually, either through children coming of age or marriage to a daughter (adoption).

Rome is losing so much money because it has a big population which means it is paying the biggest portion of the upkeep of your armed forces... Also since you blitzed and spent all your money on military you probably didn't build any economic buildings in Rome.

Gaestae... Used to be a problem, but now their size is reduced they aren't so bad. If you can surround them or hit them from behind with missles then it's easy, but if they are face to face with your Roman infantry and they have units on their flanks and you have no choice but to fight head on then they'll tear a hole in your line...

[aleh]

Why not? And this isn't really a blitz, or what you called it, after Bononia falls, I'll just stack up the garrison and send the rest down south to mop up them stinking rebels. :)

But true about the economy part. Should I disband most of my units, and should I garrison my cities with Ascensii<I think> or those javelin throwers, Leves I think they're called.

And thanks about the government buildings bit on conquered settlements, I'll start out with the type3 govs then, I just started building a homeland government in Taras for some reason.

[Dayve]

I would use leves as garrisons... They're cheap and high in numbers, but nothing else, in a garrison it is numbers that count, not quality... So just stick with leves. Once you take Bononia just garrison a legion up there in northern Italy somewhere for defence, i never seem to get attacked up there by anybody, and send the rest down to fight in Sicily... I find that 1 legion is enough to conquer Sicily, provided you take one city at a time and then send depleted troops back to be retrained in your home provinces. I try to be as historically accurate as possible in the makeup of a legion so 1 legion for me is 3 hastati, 3 principes, 2 triarii, 1 rorari and 2 accensi, 2 cavalry, 4 units of mala geroas recruited from the north of Italy for use on the flanks and a general... I'm conquering Sicily also at the moment and this is what i use - Does the job just fine. I have one other legion garrisoned up north incase they are needed there.

In my last campaign i went straight to building type 1 or 2 government in newly conquered cities but i quit that one, apparently the Romans simply used to make newly conquered areas "allies", as in... They would conquer, and let the conquered people govern themselves, but if they rebelled then they went in and slaughtered everything and burned everything etc., but gradually cities became more and more Romanized, so you should build up to type 1 or 2 government if you want to play historically.

[Tanit]

I can't seem to bribe anyone, not even rebels. And I'm trying with seven/eight/nine(and perhaps even ten) laurelled diplomats.

I really agree with this. It's ridiculous! Even with high laurelled diplomats and 1600 mnai in my coffers, I can't bribe 5 stupid rebel units to join me!

A small turnoff is when the generals give their pre-battle speech, he says that they're Greeks or some such. But hey, it's all good. What's the Latin Voice Package that I downloaded though?

I wonder that also, what IS the latin voice package for?

[abou]

I think the idea of building a Type IV government first and working your way down is ridiculous. There is a reason the Type I government takes 20 turns to complete.

[aleh]

See, there's something I don't get. How does retraining work exactly? I know it can upgrade the quality of the troops, like for example if they were trained in a city without a blacksmith. Retraining them in a city with one will give them the bonuses. But is it supposed to add new men to an unit, like for example, let's say I've got a Principe unit with 21 men, if I retrain it, will it bump them up to the full 41?

[Tanit]

Yes, but only in a city that can already recruit whole units of principae or whatever unit you're trying to retrain. If you retrain a unit in a city that can't recruit them then it will only upgrade the unit's armour and/or weapons.

[GMT]

let's say I've got a Principe unit with 21 men, if I retrain it, will it bump them up to the full 41?

yes

[Dayve]

Yeah... Also they keep the experience chevrons they had when they were depleted... There has been a lot of talk about units shouldn't keep all their chevrons when they are retrained but they should lose some...

Also to Abou... The Romans did historically make most conquered places simply allied cities... So conquering a city in mid-Gaul and building a type 2 government, is a little unrealistic don't you think?

[abou]

Also to Abou... The Romans did historically make most conquered places simply allied cities... So conquering a city in mid-Gaul and building a type 2 government, is a little unrealistic don't you think?

Depends on how long it historically took them to introduce Roman culture and practices to an area. In Italy where there were several other Latin cities and various cultures influenced by the Greeks, the five game years it takes to build a Type I government seems to be adequate for a fully Romanized province so close to the capitol.

There were actually some thoughts I had about the other types of governments in different areas. For example, an area either lost by Rome (anything on the right of the Rhine) or an area conquered in an era that takes place past the EB time frame (Dacia) should not be allowed to build anything better than a Type III. There were some others, but that is all I can remember.

[QwertyMIDX]

I really agree with this. It's ridiculous! Even with high laurelled diplomats and 1600 mnai in my coffers, I can't bribe 5 stupid rebel units to join me!

1600 mnai is nothing, try 16000.

[Tanit]

1600 mnai is nothing, try 16000.

Sorry , 16000 is what I meant to write. 1600 is nothing. WHY WON'T THEY BRIBE!!

By the way, totally off topic, I wish say that I am glad to see another Canadian on EB QwertyMIDX. I once lived in the wintry north of SSM but have since moved to the slightly less wintry south of Ontario.

[Dayve]

16000 is still nothing... I remember a unit of rebels, thessalikoi something or other, looked like thureophoroi only wearing chain mail, wanted 42,000, and that was from a single rebel unit.

Bring back the days of 1.0 i say, where you could conquer Gaul with a diplomat and 10,000 denarii

[QwertyMIDX]

By the way, totally off topic, I wish say that I am glad to see another Canadian on EB QwertyMIDX. I once lived in the wintry north of SSM but have since moved to the slightly less wintry south of Ontario.

Sadly I'm not actually a Canadian, I'm from New Jesey, I just live in Montreal at the moment.

[Kull]

Let me suggest that if you're sweating and cursing and in no danger of dozing off......yeah, you're playing EB!

[Slider6977]

- Slow, god it's slow! The battles are fine, and even the regular campaign screen is fine to a certain degree, but the time between turns is so slow, and let's not even talk about load times. It seems to go faster the longer you play, but it's all good, EB does need to have at least one downside, right?

What version are you running? 0.7.4 is MUCH faster with load times compared to 0.7.2. So make sure you have downloaded the patch. As far as in between turns, make sure you have "follow AI movements turned off in Game options. After you hit End Turn, it should only take roughly 10 seconds or less for all other factions to act (well I guess it depends on your pc too).

- For the two sieges I have, I'll force both garrisons to attack me after having built up several battering rams. My plan is to sorta make an 3rdcentBC laager(I think that's what it was called), where during the battle I'll arrange the wagons on either side of my main force so as to force a frontal fight, and I'll be able to better flank them. Does that make sense to anyone? After these two sieges, and after clearing the rebel rabble from southern Italy and Sicily, I'll settle down and just save up and build up my cities with an army at either end(Sicily/Northern Italy) and one in the center for those 'just in case' situations.

Sounds good. Problem is it will never happen. The AI is too stupid and almost never assauts an army from the front. They do a lot of reforming and finally engage in one big mess. Not to mention, when an army sallies forth to break a seige, you will find yourself running down lone units standing just outsie the gates of a wall. Even when they attack from this postion, they very rarely come to you as the defender.

There were actually some thoughts I had about the other types of governments in different areas. For example, an area either lost by Rome (anything on the right of the Rhine) or an area conquered in an era that takes place past the EB time frame (Dacia) should not be allowed to build anything better than a Type III. There were some others, but that is all I can remember.

EB got it covered : https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...EB+governments

[pezhetairoi]

16000 is still nothing... I remember a unit of rebels, thessalikoi something or other, looked like thureophoroi only wearing chain mail, wanted 42,000, and that was from a single rebel unit.

Bring back the days of 1.0 i say, where you could conquer Gaul with a diplomat and 10,000 denarii

in EB, even 160000 is nothing. Bah.

[Ludens]

A small turnoff is when the generals give their pre-battle speech, he says that they're Greeks or some such. But hey, it's all good. What's the Latin Voice Package that I downloaded though?

This is one of a series of lingering culture issues. Basically, the game does not allow EB to create new cultures or enlarge existing ones. So, the Eastern Greeks (Seleucids, Bactria, Armenia) get the Roman faction slot and have Roman speeches while the Romans use the Greek faction slot, together with Epiros, Macedon and KH. The switch to 1.5 should solve this.

Speaking of struggles, man, alliances are hard to come by. I've only gotten Pontos, and either Arverni or Aedui, and one other faction to accept(I think). But luckily, I can get trade rights easily. I can't seem to bribe anyone, not even rebels. And I'm trying with seven/eight/nine(and perhaps even ten) laurelled diplomats. And my spies aren't as good as they were in RTW, which is good because it wasn't really all that realistic.

Bribing is hideously expensive in all patches after 1.1. It seems that the ammount asked is proportionate to your treasury in some way, so if you gain more money bribes become more expensive. The high troop recruitment costs of EB drive this amount further up.

Family members. I know it doesn't happen like in RTW, but to confirm, the only way I can get a new one is to have my forces commanded by a Captain right? Wouldn't it make sense if after a while, a city left unoccupied by family members would have a chance of offering up a character for adoption(sorta of like a local magistrate who stepped up to the plate and deserves promotion)?.

Actually, the Romani do get children, it just doesn't happen very often. The rate is roughly one family member for each two provinces and if you don't have enough the game will offer you adoptees. Man-of-the-hour promotions is a form of this, but if you don't get these your family members will find someone else to adopt.

[Dayve]

In my Romani games every male general has kids... The 4 generals you start with all had 2 each with the Blasio guy having 3! Boys not girls... So this Romani thing that EB have tried to incorperate doesn't work, at least not in my games and YES, before anybody says it, my script is always activated as soon as i enter the game.

[QwertyMIDX]

I think the problem is that they get traits and ancils that give them fertility bonuses and allow them have lots of kids.

[Elthore]

speaking of expensive, are the prices for 'extensive port upgrades' gonna remain the same? at around 40k-50k?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Probably. They are not meant to be constructed really unless there is an obscene amount of money floating around and time to totally construct a type of seaport that is larger than that which naturally would be the norm in that province. We haven't heard complaints on the issue so far I don't think.

[QwertyMIDX]

Might go up a bit.

Seriously, they represent large artifical port structures so they should be VERY expensive and VERY time consuming to build.

[Dayve]

No complaints about those from me... Late in games i'm always looking for ways to get rid of the cash... This is a good one... I usually just end up with a huge navy though... More powerful than every other factions (Including rebels) combigned, and then doubled!

[QwertyMIDX]

Just wait until you mine income drops by 3/4 in the next build, we'll see who is swimming in cash then.

[Dayve]

Lets face it... Neither EB nor any other mod is going to be able to stop players from becoming immensely rich late in the game once they have even a small empire... You just keep making money and making money constantly once you have those developed cities with ports and paved roads... You could make it so mines don't give any income and i'd still be filthy stinking rich by 250BC unless i played some iron man rules... I'm playing as Makedonia right now, i have only 9 cities and i have a full stack army made up of good quality troops (pezhetaroi, thureophoroi and the like) and already i'm having to expand my navy every other turn to stop my income being high or my generals will become beauty loving no0bs.

EB's the best mod for RTW there will ever be and all but... No mod will ever be able to make this game a true challenge militarily or economy wise... RTR hasn't done it, SPQR hasn't done it, EB has made it very difficult at the start but it gets easy once you capture 2 or 3 cities...

[QwertyMIDX]

Check your income scroll, that province in Makedon makes an utterly absurb amount of money from it's multiple mines.

[Oldgamer]

Hello, gentlemen. I thought I'd drop by and do my first ".org" post in this thread ...

I absolutely love EB. Normally, I'm an RTR fanatic, since the very beginning. However, there's not much of a comparison. This mod keeps surprising me (like a recent battle in the mountains of Sicily ... province of Elmyra ... against the Carthaginians, in which I came close to losing, and lost 40% of my force).

About the slow turn thing, I'm not that worried. I've used E.T.'s little mod, and it helped out a lot. Soon, I'm taking my computer up to 2gb RAM. If that doesn't handle it, nothing will (even though the Pentium IV is only 1.6ghz).

I moved initially against the Epeirotes, with the aim of taking all of the south of Italy. Since then, I've taken all of Italy north to the Alps, part of Illyria, 2/3rds of Sicily, and I'm campaigning against the Carthos in the rest of Sicily, Corsica, and Sardinia. The year is 256bc. After I have those areas, and the rest of the Adriatic coast, I'm going to rest, refit, and re-consolidate.

If I have a complaint, it would be not having my Roman general's speeches. Also, I can't seem to get rid of the Greek "The day is ours!" guy.

Other than this, the game is simply fantastic. The only thing that would make it better for an old guy like me is some Miklos Rosza music ... lots of drums and brass!

[Dayve]

Check your income scroll, that province in Makedon makes an utterly absurb amount of money from it's multiple mines.

I've built no mines yet, although Dalminion in my last campaign i got to make over 10,000...