The Future... spin-off: modder licence categories

[Bwian]

This is something I would support wholeheartedly.

I think it can only help to safeguard the IP of modders, and also makes us look a lot more professional as a community.

If you want, I can draft something as a starting point. Ultimately, though, someone like ER should have the final say as a moderator and respected pillar of the community. He is bound to think of things I forget

I got a few days away coming to me, with only a laptop and occasional dial up link to ply with, but I will try and keep in touch over the coming week to see how this progresses

[Lentonius]

I agree also, but What would happen of the hundreds of released mod materials with no clear wishes?

Surely in the community there can be a fair way of using these mods, without everybody scrambling for an old skin pack like a gang of wolves.

I dont want to give the impression i am For material like this to be freeware, but also i dont think it should be shoved away in a dark corner and never touched again. There has to be a happy medium.

Realistically, in the real world, when a person dies, leaving no will, their posessions become property of the government.
I think a solution to this problem of people leaving, is that we should give them a month,2, 3 months notification, whatever is better. After that I think moderators, or a senior member, should read whatever readme is found, and by doing this, judge to the best of their ability how this modder wanted their material used.

And if a fustrated modder returns? We simply ask them to re-write the readme of their material featuring any dos or donts the modder feels like.

[Epistolary Richard]

If you want, I can draft something as a starting point. Ultimately, though, someone like ER should have the final say as a moderator and respected pillar of the community.

I've always wanted to become part of the architecture.

I think what you and Lusted have already written is the type of thing we would want, no need to make things more complicated - smaller mods won't need more and larger ones can add categories as required:
Name
Version
Compatibility
Install instructions
Description/Credits
Conditions of Use

Rather than writing a sample for a 'fictional' mod - we can use a real one.

What we may ultimately be able to achieve - and I can check on the technicalities of this - is if we were to have a database of released mods then a new entry form can include the above as fields - with help links to describe what each field should be used for. If a modder was asked to consider all the above sections when he was posting the mod I would hope the provision of such info would be automatic.

It would be good if a template was in place before the release of M2TW. The main problem with the suggestions we've been raising is that the whole (or a significant majority) of the modding community needs to be made aware that such templates exist. More importantly, these ideas need to become 'the norm', ideally before the release of M2TW.

I wholeheartedly agree. The reason to have these kind of discussions now is to allow technical development and 'bedding down' of any ideas before MTW2 starts rolling. It gives us a chance to be proactive regarding MTW2 modding - rather than reactive.

I agree also, but What would happen of the hundreds of released mod materials with no clear wishes?

That's kind of a different question. Where it's not clear what a modder's wishes have been, it's not going to be a crisis if they remain obscure. Clearer instructions will still help us just going forward.

But there's an occasion coming up which may help. With a released mod database as modders came to relist their mods their could expand upon their wishes if it hadn't already been clear.

Additionally, whilst some venerable modders are no longer contactable - it's not the case for all of them. If one were writing to them to ask for permission to incorporate their work elsewere, one could ask them if they'd be willing to extend such a permission generally. If it's something they did a long time ago they may not care so much how it is used.

[Lusted]

I could post the readme for my mod once i've finished it for 4.0 as an example of what a readme should look like.

[Epistolary Richard]

An interesting post from someone thinking along similar lines for the Morrowind modding community. Also, here are the custom licences that they came up with.

[Arbaces]

Got it. I've got a question: what happens if somebody logs in without answering my question of permission? He doesn't tell me that he won't allow me to use his work, which I find normal but he doesn't tell me that I'm free to use his work either. This is a problem I'm currently encountering with my mod and it's a bit strange thing not to answer: I thought when you don't want to allow him to use his work you reply with threats that you will post everywhere that he is a thief...etc, not by being silent anyway.
After all this topic is useful ;). Thanks for answer.

Farewell,
Arbaces.

PS: Will it be ok that in the future I make a statement of my policy on my forums, to avoid this kind of people at once? Is it generally ok ?

[alpaca]

I think mod teams should handle anything one of their affilitiates explicitly creates for their mod in his stead - via their readme - and that it should be subject to their respective license (which should be included in said readme).

Also, modders should be made aware then that by joining the mod team the rights to any work they do for the mod will go to the team and not stay with the person - unless the team (or a responsible representative) explicitly agrees to make an exception.

I think we should generally work on those license modes (maybe I'll write a few paragraphs when I'm up to using that kind of language ;)) and maybe we can even establish a few standards that can just be copied (Creative Commons like).
Maybe one of the more experienced modders should also create a tutorial on this to show newbies how we'd like it to be done :)

I'll also release the Chivalry readme as an example if you consider it as a good one (after I wrote it of course).

[Epistolary Richard]

I've got a question: what happens if somebody logs in without answering my question of permission? He doesn't tell me that he won't allow me to use his work, which I find normal but he doesn't tell me that I'm free to use his work either.

Unfortunately, you can't infer permission from silence. If someone hasn't said that other people can use his work, either in a readme or in a post or in a specific communication, then you can't assume that permission is granted just because he doesn't reply to your request. All you can do is send the request again or if he's part of a team then you can try contacting another member and seeing if they can help you get in contact.

PS: Will it be ok that in the future I make a statement of my policy on my forums, to avoid this kind of people at once? Is it generally ok ?

All forums operate under terms and conditions of use - if you control your own forums then you can vary those terms, either by rewriting your terms and conditions section or making an announcement that you're adding an addendum to them.

Any mod uploaded and posted, for example, we assume that the modder gives permission for private us (after all, if he didn't want other people to use it then why is he uploading and posting it?).

What you could say in addition, for example, is that if a modder uploaded his mod onto your site then he would be a) warranting that he was either the creator or authorised by the creator to do so, and b) automatically granting permission for others (or yourself or your team or whomever) to use that work in other public modifications (subject to the giving of credit or whatever or conditions).

The important thing to note is that you have to make everybody who might upload there aware of this term (i.e. members of your site) when it's first introduced and subsequently - so then they can make a fair choice.

It also doesn't apply retrospectively - so anything uploaded previously isn't covered - as when those modders uploaded their work they weren't aware of that term.

Also, modders should be made aware then that by joining the mod team the rights to any work they do for the mod will go to the team and not stay with the person - unless the team (or a responsible representative) explicitly agrees to make an exception.

Mod teams really should give some thought to this, so everyone is clear of the conditions when they join up - what I've heard of as a good compromise is that the individual modder retains the right to the work - but as part of the team they automatically grant the team the right to use the work in the mod and further adapt it as necessary. They also give the team the right to publish it first - once the mod's been released (and due credit has accrued to the team), then the individual modder can grant permissions to other people to use the work.

I also agree that it's a good idea to build in a 'living will' clause to a team agreement so if the modder isn't around any more a representative of the team can extend permissions to others outside the team to use it.

I'll also release the Chivalry readme as an example if you consider it as a good one (after I wrote it of course).

Yes, I think it would be good to have a look at a few readmes - as well as using them to determine a base we can use them to link to as examples.

I took the excuse of the release of a small mini-mod to write up a new readme of my own.

It's pretty much the same as the top forum thread I posted here.