HOMM5 demo out

[frogbeastegg]

Finally played it just now. Everything was going well, until it crashed when I tried to leave the town I had captured. 15 minutes down the drain, grrrr.

It reminded me a bit of the original Age of Wonders demo. One hero, a little army, and wandering about a pretty green map finding things and slaying monsters until, after a few game days, the need to find a town to take got pressing and froggy got conquering. I was planning on doing much as I did back then, and wandering the map with my newly expanded and upgraded army, building up my city and finding others. Ah well, I'll give it another go sometime. Not likely to be until Thursday at the soonest; no time for games.

Being new to the series I do wish they had included some basic instructions beyond the hotkeys. Given time I could figure it out, but I don't have that time.

[Sjakihata]

I just tried a custom game. Dang it sucked. The AI was just sitting in its castle doing nothing but recruiting a humongous army. When I arrived I thought I could handle it, but it had like 1k of most units, 120 angels... No attacks, nothing just sitting there. I hope the limitations is something put on by the demo, like you cant recruit more than 1 hero (in custom) not tavern etc.

[screwtype]

Yes, I think I have to agree that the AI is suspect. After exploring virtually the whole map and beating off numerous AI attacks on Dunmoor, I finally made it to the enemy city at the bottom corner of the map. I found a couple of wizards wandering around with virtually no army in the same location and bopped them (okay, not necessarily evidence of bad AI, but it did seem a bit odd). I also bopped a couple of AI armies in the vicinity of the city.

But when it came to the city itself, it was very weakly defended and a pushover to take. Maybe one of those AI armies I bopped had just come from the city, but surely it would make more sense for it to stay put and defend its critical infrastructure from a position of strength?

Okay, so I took the town, and then accidentally lost my big army when I passed through the garrison gate (I ddn't realize that was going to cause it to exit the scenario!).

But then, the very next turn, what happens but the arch demon Agrael turns up with a humungous army at the doorstep of my newly conquered, weakly defended town - then simply rushes past on its way, presumably, to mount another futile attack on Dunmoor at the opposite edge of the map!

Yes, when the enemy ignores a crucial, weakly defended target like that, I think it safe to say the AI has a problem!

All the same, I found this scenario very challenging, perhaps especially because I don't use the "chained heroes" exploit. So all is not lost. I'm still inclined to pick up a copy of the full game. But it obviously detracts somewhat from the appeal of the package to find an AI which is lacking in smarts.

[Mithrandir]

Gah!

I've not read this whole thread, but it seems I've got the time to read this entire forum,do background research on every topic I come across and write a few essays on my findings as well...

downloading the demo...665MB!! The first game was like 50MB.I've played 1,2,3 and 4. Despite all the bad comments on part 4 I liked it. Part 1 was nice, but ofcourse not comparable to part 2 or 3. I can't wait for the download to be complete... 6% so far.

-Mithrandir.

[Mithrandir]

ok, just finished reading this thread.

27% downloaded in the meanwhile...

as for the chain of heroes, in HOMAM4 there was no need, not becuase you didnt need heroes to move your units, but because of the brilliant caravan invention. You could build a caravan building, with which you could move units from other towns (with caravans) and lose recruitment point much faster than any heroe could walk.

On MP possibility :cool. send me a PM when you see me online to contac me for a game (starting tomorrow when everything is downloaded and installed).

-Mithrandir.

ps: 30% (95k/s)

[Lehesu]

What is this game like, exactly? Is it like Disciples 2, as I very much enjoyed that game.

[AntiochusIII]

What is this game like, exactly? Is it like Disciples 2, as I very much enjoyed that game.

Having played Disciples 2, and having played HOMM3 (which, according to all the rumors and hype, is quite the same as this new sequel), I must say they have a lot of differences between them. Disciples 2 is very much concentrated on one single party that is your heart and soul and must be saved at any cost (else all the experience goes to hell), and "grand strategy" is limited to a very individual scope. HOMM series take a wider look on grand strategy and all the cities can be developed (no super capital ala Disciples 2, though) to their own extent, more than one hero can actually be on the frontline (though a main hero is still a preferred strategy), units can be sacrificed for the sake of victory (no lv ups for the grunts), different "holding the empire" systems (Disciples being based on rods on strategic assets and cities to spread the green, while Heroes is, arguably, based on hero, or at least in later games parties of units, presence, protecting the mines and recruting grounds).

Nonetheless, at heart the games are quite the same: very good turn-based fantasy strategies where every choice matters. Although Disciples 2 is far more individual. To sum it up, you probably would like it; but to be safe, you should try HOMM3 first (it is hailed as the series' zenith, and the creators of this new one has deliberately been trying to create HOMM5 as "HOMM3's sequel") and see if you like it.

Talking about Disciples now have me wanting the Rise of the Elves expansion. Dangit!

[Lehesu]

Rise of the Elves is pretty good, although the new mana is not very well implemented. Why should I try 3 instead of waiting for the price on 5 to go down?

[frogbeastegg]

IMO the best thing to do is pick up one of the special HOMM5 packages. If you are in the UK you can get the entire series for £29.99, including all add-ons, as an Amazon exclusive. Outside of the UK the bundles vary; I'd investigate them. Sure I heard about one with HOMM 3 (minus add-ons)and 5 in ...

Myself, I find that most of my time is going into HOMM5. Somehow it feels more fun than what I tried of HOMM3. In 3 the towns were too simple, upgrading them to the maximum was too easy; the higher level units could be reached far faster. Then there's also the many tiny tweaks made to the series, such as showing how many creatures are killed as well as the damage an attack will do when you place the cursor over an enemy unit, or the bar which shows the order in which creatures will get their turns. Small things, yet good improvements, and together they add up. The fixed low resolution doesn't help, it gives me a headache and hurts my eyes after a short time; I still haven't found a way around it. Damn LCD monitors and their native resolutions.

Not that I dislike HOMM3, or have given up on it. Simply, I'll finish with 5 first, because I don't see any reason to do otherwise.

[Leet Eriksson]

Having played Disciples 2, and having played HOMM3 (which, according to all the rumors and hype, is quite the same as this new sequel), I must say they have a lot of differences between them. Disciples 2 is very much concentrated on one single party that is your heart and soul and must be saved at any cost (else all the experience goes to hell), and "grand strategy" is limited to a very individual scope. HOMM series take a wider look on grand strategy and all the cities can be developed (no super capital ala Disciples 2, though) to their own extent, more than one hero can actually be on the frontline (though a main hero is still a preferred strategy), units can be sacrificed for the sake of victory (no lv ups for the grunts), different "holding the empire" systems (Disciples being based on rods on strategic assets and cities to spread the green, while Heroes is, arguably, based on hero, or at least in later games parties of units, presence, protecting the mines and recruting grounds).

Nonetheless, at heart the games are quite the same: very good turn-based fantasy strategies where every choice matters. Although Disciples 2 is far more individual. To sum it up, you probably would like it; but to be safe, you should try HOMM3 first (it is hailed as the series' zenith, and the creators of this new one has deliberately been trying to create HOMM5 as "HOMM3's sequel") and see if you like it.

Talking about Disciples now have me wanting the Rise of the Elves expansion. Dangit!

I hated the feature where you had to level up your units in Disciples 2, but i have to say it has a rather awesome selection of units! On another note if you carried on your leveled units the game would become a total cakewalk.

[x-dANGEr]

Well I must admit I enjoyed HOMM3, too. I remember riding with my superb hero fearless, and then find out that the enemy's hero am facing has 67 Arch Devils.. Oops! But one warning about HOMM series, once you play the first game, you will stick to it till you finish it, and you may even re-play it. Whatever version it is, you will love it. Though, you need to know that all the graphics and 3D things are only that viable in 5, which annoys me that they haven't used it well enough.. I mean, come on, terrain advantages anyone? Also, their are many abilities un-explained, which only makes it harder for the new guys to the series to play the game and enjoy it. (Just one rule when playing a HOMM, keep playing till you start enjoying it)

[screwtype]

I just tried a custom game. Dang it sucked. The AI was just sitting in its castle doing nothing but recruiting a humongous army. When I arrived I thought I could handle it, but it had like 1k of most units, 120 angels... No attacks, nothing just sitting there.

That doesn't sound good either. In fact it sounds quite worrying. How the heck are you going to conquer a town with that many units???

I neglected to mention in my previous post that although it took me a considerable time to finally find and conquer the enemy city at the opposite end of the map, I was suprised to find in my travels that virtually ALL the infrastructure I encountered on the way hadn't yet been conquered by the enemy. Was this done deliberately in the demo to give you the fun of conquering stuff for the first time yourself? I don't know, but again, it doesn't appear to say a lot for the AI.

In fairness though, it did conquer stuff after I had first conquered it, so it appears it was programmed simply not to attack neutrally held infrastructure. I'm just wondering though, was it only programmed this way for the sake of the demo, or is this going to be a feature of the game? Because if the AI doesn't attack neutrals, it's obviously going to considerably weaken its powers of expansion.

Then again, that might have been deliberately done to better balance the gameplay. But coming from an Age of Wonders background, where the AI goes for everything just like the human player, it does seem a little strange.

I hope the limitations is something put on by the demo, like you cant recruit more than 1 hero (in custom) not tavern etc.

Yeah, maybe it was specific to that scenario. But when you say you can only recruit one hero, I assume you mean you can't have more than two heroes total? Because you'd need at least one to hold the city and one to wander the map, wouldn't you?

[Ironside]

I just tried a custom game. Dang it sucked. The AI was just sitting in its castle doing nothing but recruiting a humongous army. When I arrived I thought I could handle it, but it had like 1k of most units, 120 angels... No attacks, nothing just sitting there. I hope the limitations is something put on by the demo, like you cant recruit more than 1 hero (in custom) not tavern etc.

Yeah I tried that one too. Considering how important heroes are for recruiting, being limited to one hero sucks. Got lucky, as when I ran back to my city to recruit some troops from those extra troop buildings, the army ran out and started conquer stuff. The wierd part was when I stole the city, by running part the army. The comp didn't react to try to retake it so I won after a week.

BTW screwtype FYI the comp only got one hero too in this scenario and Sjakihata does seem to be a slow player, the army was bigger than mine but not by much and had 12 angels or something.

But then, the very next turn, what happens but the arch demon Agrael turns up with a humungous army at the doorstep of my newly conquered, weakly defended town - then simply rushes past on its way, presumably, to mount another futile attack on Dunmoor at the opposite edge of the map!

Yes, when the enemy ignores a crucial, weakly defended target like that, I think it safe to say the AI has a problem!

That particular incident has to do with the ending of the scenario. You can really bug out the ending though, I defeated Agrael and greeted Nicolai (sp?) and that cimematic still showed up.

I can think that the comp doesn't stay in the city because he doesn't consider victory possible even when defending the city. Thus fleeing with his army gives a small chance of taking another city. That it makes a horrendous option instead of poor option is a problem though.

[screwtype]

That particular incident has to do with the ending of the scenario. You can really bug out the ending though, I defeated Agrael and greeted Nicolai (sp?) and that cimematic still showed up.

Wait a minute, you're saying that graphics of Agrael and his minions running past the city is a cinematic? I didn't realise that, I thought it was in-game.

I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out what to do next in this scenario though. I've captured the demon town, got Godrick to exit the map to find Nicolai, but I'm still stuck in the same scenario and being told I have to "defend Dunmoor" from demon attacks. What demons? If that scene of Agrael running past was a cinematic, there are no demon armies left to kill!

Edit: You were right, from that point the cinematics basically take over. You've just got to hit "end turn" a few times to finish the cinematics. Odd way to structure it, but it works fine.

I can think that the comp doesn't stay in the city because he doesn't consider victory possible even when defending the city. Thus fleeing with his army gives a small chance of taking another city. That it makes a horrendous option instead of poor option is a problem though.

I don't know about that, I didn't have that big an army by that time myself. About all I had left was 100 squires and 30 inquisitors.

BTW, I really hate those succubi! Don't you hate the way they attack every unit whenever you hit them? They are wicked. If not for them my losses would be a lot less.

I like to stomp them with griffin battle dives though

[Ironside]

Wait a minute, you're saying that graphics of Agrael and his minions running past the city is a cinematic? I didn't realise that, I thought it was in-game.

I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out what to do next in this scenario though. I've captured the demon town, got Godrick to exit the map to find Nicolai, but I'm still stuck in the same scenario and being told I have to "defend Dunmoor" from demon attacks. What demons? If that scene of Agrael running past was a cinematic, there are no demon armies left to kill!

Edit: You were right, from that point the cinematics basically take over. You've just got to hit "end turn" a few times to finish the cinematics. Odd way to structure it, but it works fine.

BTW, I really hate those succubi! Don't you hate the way they attack every unit whenever you hit them? They are wicked. If not for them my losses would be a lot less.

I like to stomp them with griffin battle dives though

The supposed structure of the ending is:
Godrick runs for help.
Agrael comes running.
Nicolai shows up. Agrael and Nicolai battles, the true cinematic starts.
It's easy to kill Agrael before Nicolai either shows up or before he faces Agrael and thus messing up the ending. You'll finish the mission but the storyline will be somewhat broken (and killing Agrael before Nicolai shows up seems to trigger the same cinematic every turn for a few turns before the final one comes).

Yeah I usually melee or battle dive on those succubus. The chain attack does has it disadvantage though, it works on every non-demon unit, even those in your own army.

Edit: Didn't take long to download the demo BTW. I had over 1 megabyte/sec the whole time . The gamershell link worked wonders.

[Blodrast]

I guess that the initiative-based system has been figured out so far - it's not new, it's been there before. Not entirely intuitive, if you don't know about it beforehand, I agree.

About the tactical battles - even if they may not be documented, key shortcuts should work (D = done, W = wait, S = stand/defend, etc.). Although it's conceivable that they changed some of these.

About not being able to recruit more heroes thingie: I recall reading that there are some limitations intentionally imposed on the number of heroes you can buy in the beginning, precisely to prevent people from just getting a bunch of heroes with 1 (symbolic) unit as their army for scouts, right from the start. You can buy more, but not an unlimited number in a day, even if you can afford it.
There may also be some hardcoded limitations because this is only the demo.

What I'd like to hear about is how difficult it is to navigate through the abilities/skills trees - they seemed even more convoluted than in homm4... But I assume that the demo doesn't let you get far enough with the development of a hero to figure that out...

[Ironside]

About not being able to recruit more heroes thingie: I recall reading that there are some limitations intentionally imposed on the number of heroes you can buy in the beginning, precisely to prevent people from just getting a bunch of heroes with 1 (symbolic) unit as their army for scouts, right from the start. You can buy more, but not an unlimited number in a day, even if you can afford it.
There may also be some hardcoded limitations because this is only the demo.

The first campaign mission gives you the recuiting speed of 2 heroes/day up to 8 (or possible 6 on the field). The other (non-campaign) mission has no taverns at all = no available heroes to recruit.

[screwtype]

Finally played it just now. Everything was going well, until it crashed when I tried to leave the town I had captured. 15 minutes down the drain, grrrr.

Did your PC slow down horrendously around the demon town too? Mine practically slowed to a crawl.

Having just spent $800 upgrading my PC to an Athlon 64 3000+, a gigabyte of RAM, and a newish video card, I was kind of annoyed to see a game behaving the way games used to behave on my humble old 1 Gig Celeron. There's a sense that one never quite catches up, because the better the hardware gets, the sooner game developers are pushing the limits of the current hardware again so you end up having to run just to stay on the same spot.

BTW, how did you find the map scrolling? I found it so sluggish and unresponsive I was starting to rant at the screen toward the end, which is never a good sign!

The problem is you move the cursor to edge of the screen and nothing happens for a second, or two, then it starts to move. But then sometimes it decides it doesn't want to move at all, so you wait that couple of seconds and NOTHING HAPPENS. Then having run out of mouse mat, you have to reposition it and start all over again. I HATE that.

Now that I think of it, I might try zooming the map out a bit from the standard height. Maybe that will help a bit.

[frogbeastegg]

Did your PC slow down horrendously around the demon town too? Mine practically slowed to a crawl.

Didn't even get that far. I wandered about for a few turns around the starting area of the first campaign scenario, killed a few stray creatures and collected some loot, then went for the first town I found, the one very close to the starting area with an ore mine in front of it. I captured the town, and the game crashed when I tried to leave after looking about and making a few build orders.

BTW, how did you find the map scrolling? I found it so sluggish and unresponsive I was starting to rant at the screen toward the end, which is never a good sign!

Mixed bag. On the default speed it was fine; I didn't have to adjust anything in the options. However, the game itself was slightly jerky and the camera didn't behave as I expected/wanted it to. Oh, I've found all the camera controls, but no way does it move as I expect, so often I find myself staring off in the wrong direction. The more I zoomed out the worse the jerkiness, the more I zoom in the harder it is to get the camera to behave.

I'm not excessively worried about the game's performance. Yet. It's a demo of a work in progress, and my drivers are possibly a bit old for a new and demanding game.

The comments about AI do worry me. Can only hope it improves in the release version; correctly or incorrectly I gather the game itself is still unfinished and that this demo is more of a taster for veterans than a demo to sell to the public.

[Sjakihata]

I am now convinced that the AI is being suppressed by the demo. In all other hmm series the AI has been (somewhat) challenging and Im sure it will in #5 as well.

Now, I get the slow down in the inferno area as well, seems like bad coding. The only reason Im going to buy this game, is Im a die-hard fan of it and I enjoy playing it.


Have you guys tried out MP yet, that is some serious fun. I find the elves and tower races to be the better ones, but I occasionally get a defeat. Im called Skafsgaard and usually in channel #2

[screwtype]

I am now convinced that the AI is being suppressed by the demo. In all other hmm series the AI has been (somewhat) challenging and Im sure it will in #5 as well.

Hope you're right about that.

The only reason Im going to buy this game, is Im a die-hard fan of it and I enjoy playing it.

Sounds like a pretty good reason to me

Have you guys tried out MP yet, that is some serious fun. I find the elves and tower races to be the better ones, but I occasionally get a defeat. Im called Skafsgaard and usually in channel #2

I don't do MP. I live on the other side of the planet and whenever I've tried MP the lag has just made it not worth bothering with. And it's hard to find local MP opponents.

[econ21]

In all other hmm series the AI has been (somewhat) challenging and Im sure it will in #5 as well.

Not in Homm4. The battle AI was fine. But the strategic AI was braindead. Camping in towns, not picking up resources/mines, not combining armies and leaders and - worse of all - committing hari-kiri by attacking too strong wandering monsters. On some maps the only sign I would see of the AI was the graves of its fallen leaders. The Homm5 AI sounds inauspiciously familiar.

[screwtype]

Actually, in the second scenario the AI is helping itself to the map goodies. So I guess the reason it didn't in the first is that it was programmed not to.

[Ja'chyra]

Can someone tell me type of game this is before I download the 600Mb

Is it the Dawn of War, gather resources type or the MTW type?

[Sjakihata]

Not in Homm4. The battle AI was fine. But the strategic AI was braindead. Camping in towns, not picking up resources/mines, not combining armies and leaders and - worse of all - committing hari-kiri by attacking too strong wandering monsters. On some maps the only sign I would see of the AI was the graves of its fallen leaders. The Homm5 AI sounds inauspiciously familiar.

Ah, didnt play that much in singleplayer mode

[Mithrandir]

Installed it, and when I try to play it, I get the title screen with the demonhead, and then an error...

any help please?

[screwtype]

Didn't even get that far. I wandered about for a few turns around the starting area of the first campaign scenario, killed a few stray creatures and collected some loot, then went for the first town I found, the one very close to the starting area with an ore mine in front of it. I captured the town, and the game crashed when I tried to leave after looking about and making a few build orders.

Okay. I didn't get a single crash in about three evenings of playing so far. But whenever I enter a town and see all those fancy swirling 3D graphics, I can't help but expect a crash any moment. I guess years of gaming having taught me that Pavlovian response

Oh, I've found all the camera controls, but no way does it move as I expect, so often I find myself staring off in the wrong direction. The more I zoomed out the worse the jerkiness, the more I zoom in the harder it is to get the camera to behave.

I'm notoriously reluctant to explore a UI. It usually takes me six months to find some essential UI feature that would have made all the difference to gameplay, LOL.

I've just got no patience when it comes to learning new software. Just hop right in and hope for the best

I'm not excessively worried about the game's performance. Yet. It's a demo of a work in progress, and my drivers are possibly a bit old for a new and demanding game.

It's not that bad. But as I said to you on the GalCiv thread, I just have a thing about games that don't scroll efficiently. It could definitely be a lot smoother.

The comments about AI do worry me. Can only hope it improves in the release version; correctly or incorrectly I gather the game itself is still unfinished and that this demo is more of a taster for veterans than a demo to sell to the public.

Oh heck, I thought the game had been released. Oh well, I guess I can save my money a bit longer then

Yeah, I hope the AI is improved too. But my experience with RTW makes me suspect that what you see in the demo is pretty much what you end up with in the finished game.

[frogbeastegg]

But whenever I enter a town and see all those fancy swirling 3D graphics, I can't help but expect a crash any moment.

Heck, yes! That town was incredibly beautiful. I sat there watching the flyby for a minute or so, admiring the castle, the river, the little town, the sky ...

It's not that bad. But as I said to you on the GalCiv thread, I just have a thing about games that don't scroll efficiently. It could definitely be a lot smoother.

The mildly amusing thing is that in both games I haven't had any scrolling problems at all. I too despise slow scrolling.

Actually, though, I meant the performance issues I was having - the crash, the jerkiness.


Mith, a poor idea from a frog, but it may help. Have you got a firewall? Mine interrupted the demo as it loaded about that point, demanding to know what privilages the demo should have. That interruption has crashed me many a game before now. Best to set the privilages before launching the game.

[screwtype]

HOMM5 just went gold UK release date 18th May.

Mithrandir, in case you hadn't found it yet, here is the tech help page for HOMM5:

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums/a/frm/f/4611096804

[Mithrandir]

Thanks,

Where can I check what videocard I have?
And in the systemlog I got the following error :

00003625 Loaded UI Game Root
00005438 <color=green>AUTODETECTED: Unknown card, DX7 class hardware
00005438 <color=green>AUTODETECTED: Speed: 3 Texture: 0 FSAA: -1
00005438 Executing c:\program files\ubisoft\heroes of might and magic v\demo\Profiles\default_profile\input.cfg
00006641 Executing ..\Profiles\autoexec.cfg

And froggy, don't think I've got a firewall..

*ducks from all invading hack-attacks*