HOMM5 demo out

[Dutch_guy]

Thanks,

Where can I check what videocard I have?

Well it should be listed in your DXDiag.

Start ---> run --> DXdiag ---> then select the tab with the name screen ( or something of that kind, you'll see it dont worry )

[Mithrandir]

Thanks simon,

seems I've got a crappy 32MB video card, my old pc even had a better one (also 32MB) :(

oh well. can someone post screenshots please?

[Blodrast]

Mithrandir, there are some screenshots at http://www.mightandmagic.com/HeroesV/uk/screenshots.php

Hope this helps a bit :)

[econ21]

seems I've got a crappy 32MB video card, my old pc even had a better one (also 32MB)

32MB must struggle with RTW, doesn't it? 128MB seems to be the minimum for new games and 256MB the recommended.

Video cards are actually quite easy to install [1], so if you can afford it and the rest of your PC is decent, it might be worth considering an upgrade. The weblink I gave should give you an idea if the rest of your computer is suitable for Homm5. I'm not sure it is a game worth a hardware upgrade. But M2TW may be.

The apothecary should be able to recommend a videocard suitable for your needs.

[1]Even I did it and I struggle to change a light bulb. Just get the side off your computer. Unscrew the old video card and unplug the wires/ribbon/whatsit. Then screw in the new video card in the same place and plug in the wires.

[screwtype]

32MB must struggle with RTW, doesn't it? 128MB seems to be the minimum for new games and 256MB the recommended.

I'd say so. How the heck has he been getting away with a video card like this? Did he just recently buy this PC secondhand or something?

Mithrandir, before forking out for a new video card, you might want to make sure you have a video slot. I'm not sure, but I think some mobo's with integrated graphics can't be upgraded to a new vid card.

If you do have a video slot (presumably AGP if you're running a Sempron), I'd suggest getting a Radeon 9800 Pro if you're on a budget as it's a relatively cheap card by now and it still performs quite well (although not as well as state of the art hardware, obviously).

I might also suggest taking a look at your mobo to try and find out what model it is, and thereby what features it has. You might be able to do this through software. Someone with more familiarity with Windows than me might be able to help you there

Video cards are actually quite easy to install...Even I did it and I struggle to change a light bulb. Just get the side off your computer. Unscrew the old video card and unplug the wires/ribbon/whatsit. Then screw in the new video card in the same place and plug in the wires.

The important thing is to ground yourself first, by touching a kitchen tap, and then handling the card only by the sides, in order to ensure you don't damage it with static electricity.

[frogbeastegg]

Finally got to play the demo a bit more. I didn't finish the mission, but I did play enough to decide that I shall keep an eye out for the release version. If it's in good condition I will likely buy a copy. If it's buggy or still has a dead AI then I shall curse and hope for a patch, and see after that.

On the uninstall matter, the demo uninstalled correctly for me. I decided I'd rather play a finished version than continue to wander blind in a touchy demo.

[econ21]

I finished the Haven campaign mission and share froggy's positive assessment.

I don't think it gave me much insight into the AI, as it all seemed pretty much scripted - the AI seemed pre-programed to assault your castle at given points. For this, I will forgive it making hopeless attacks towards the end, when it could not expect to win. (One of the strengths of the Homm3 strategic AI was how it took great pains to evade battle if it was outgunned - it would stay more than a turn away from a powerful army; hence the power of the "hero chain" that could get such an army into contact against the AIs anticipation).

I hope the maps - at least the scenarios - that come with the game are not so scripted. (Apparently the Devil campaign map with the demo is even more restrictive - you are pursued by two powerul armies and must evade battle.) I much prefer open-ended maps where you can play the way you want, rather than "puzzle-style" maps where you have to do exactly what the game designers intended you to.

But the exploring, levelling up and combat was great fun, as always. Although when you zoom into battle mode, however, it did remind me awfully of that video mocking Japanese RPGs.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=63269

[Meneldil]

Boring scripted maps aren't news, I remember some HOMM3 scenarios in which you had to find a given hero/item while the AI launched hopeless attacks on your main castle, or to find something before the AI army reach a castle, and so on...

It seems pretty normal for a demo to let you play only such maps. The game isn't finished, and it looks like it was quite rushed in the later stages (they've redone many units, probably because they looked like exact copy of Warhammer table top game figures, and feared legal issue with Game Workshop). They don't want to reveal everything (skills, units, castles), which is quite understandable.

[econ21]

...they've redone many units, probably because they looked like exact copy of Warhammer table top game figures, and feared legal issue with Game Workshop)...

Even so, the similarities are striking. The shields of the knight heroes seem clones of the Chaos warrior shields in Warhammer, while the "inquisitors" also seem rip-offs of those in 40K and Dawn of War. The entire Chaos town line-up seems stolen from the Warhammer Dark Elf army. It's all pretty shameless and if I were a GW boss, I'd be livid. As someone who rather likes GW fluff, though, I'm quite happy.

[frogbeastegg]

The game is out today. Anyone got it? Opinions? Bit early I know, but I am liking the idea of playing a scenario a week in an evening after work. I want a chance of pace to GalCiv2 now.

Another question: In the event that I decide to buy HOMM5, is it worth getting the special edition which also includes HOMM1-4? HOMM1 won't be too useful, nor will 2, but 3 and 4 might be. Not sure how they stand up today, and the last thing I want to do is splash out the extra for this version only to find that those two won't run easily/properly on my PC, or that they pale in comparison to the new one. Heh, no idea where I would get the time to play them.

[David]

HoMMV = HoMM III in 3d. If you havent played HoMM III yet its definetely worth getting. I'm nearly at the end of the first campaign, last scenario being the demo level. Its nearly the same as HoMM III except cosmetic changes ofcourse. Havent tried MP or skirmish yet though.

[econ21]

My copy has not arrived, although I am alarmed by some stuff I've been reading on various forums (e.g. the designer saying the AI is not perfect because it was only worked on late .)

In terms of the older games, a lot of folk rate Homm2 as the best, so I am not sure I would dismiss it.

Homm3 is an outstanding game. Very competitive AI - Total War could learn a lot from it. Beautiful presentation (even by today's standards, IMO - 3d graphics are so overrated). Vast amount of gaming possible (with so many user made scenarios on the web). I'd rate it with Civ2 or Civ4 - not really my cup of tea, but still a top of the range strategy game.

Homm4 is broken. Braindead strategic AI. Wonderful hero system and cute graphics. But the AI won't give you a challenge.

I'm guessing Homm5 will be somewhere between the heights of Homm3 and the lows of Homm4. Exactly where, of course, will make all the difference.

[frogbeastegg]

One copy of the amazon.uk exclusive complete edition inbound. Half of me is wondering if I might have done better to load up Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic and play that for a month or so until HOMM5 is properly evaluated for things like bugs and AI, but oh well.

Which leads to more froggy questions. Surprise surprise

I know there are an assortment of add-on packs for HOMM3 and 4. I don't know if they are included in this edition or not; it does say "The Complete Edition contains all five Heroes of Might and Magic episodes, including the latest instalment - Heroes of Might and Magic V - and the entire versions of Heroes of Might and Magic 1 to 4." Although that could be deceptive wording, and mean the entire versions of the basic games only. So, what are the names of the various add-ons? In case mention is made of them in the documentation. Also, are they vital to the experience, nice, or a bit of a waste?

Nextly, patches and so on for HOMM 3 and 4. I presume there are some? Not sure if these editions come pre-patched or not, so just in case what version did the games get patched up to with/without add-ons, and where can I get those patches now the company responsible for the old games is dead and gone?

I'm left wondering where on earth to start! Obviously going to play some HOMM5 to start off, and if it is good and bug-free I shall likely keep on going. But sometimes it is hard to go back to older games in a series after playing the newer ones. Yet HOMM 3 and 4 both sound like massive games. At present I find I can't interest myself in HOMM1 and 2, the former demanding DOS and not sounding like it offers anything the others do not, and the latter just being so old I find myself doubting it won't have aged badly and that it will offer more than different scenarios compared to the newer ones.

[econ21]

Homm4 needs a lot of patches (including some that have not been made! ) - and they are incremental, IIRC, so you need them all. But I suspect that the "complete" thing you have ordered will include them. I can't recall about Homm3 and think it even more likely the one you get will be fully patched. Looking at my own files, I have Homm3 patches up to 1.4 and Homm4 patches up to 3.0. A google search should find them - these games have a fairly big online community.

I don't think the bundle comes with the add-ons. But you don't need the Homm4 ones - I don't have them and can't even recall what they were. They were just milking a weak game and did not fix the lamentable strategic AI. The main Homm3 add-ons were Armageddon's Blade and Shadow of Death. They are good - the former came first and IIRC, added a new town and other "stuff"; the latter has some nice and long campaigns. They are not essential but do allow you to play some very nice usermade maps. There is a game "Homm3 complete" that does have the vanilla game and the two expansions, at a very good price. But only worry about that if you get hooked on it.

On where to start - Homm5 first, as you say. Beyond that, maybe try the Order campaign in Homm4 - I love the writing in it. With Homm3, the campaigns start mind-numblingly easy, so you might want to download a savegame that unlocks the harder ones. The second Good campaign gives some excellent fights - better than most scenarios. If you get into Homm3 or Homm4, you might try looking on the web for scenarios. People have put in a lot of work creating and reviewing maps.

[econ21]

Played around a little with Homm5 today - on about the 4th of the Haven campaign. They are all basically tutorials - no AI opponent until the 5th, which we've seen on the demo. But they are fairly engaging. Abysmal voice acting and story-telling. But the gameplay is ok. The strategic level suffers from the new graphics - it's just much harder to be "strategic", as it's harder to work out where you are in relation to everything else. The battles are ok - a little rough round the edges (just fought 15 pitlords and they kill 100+ creatures in a couple of rounds. yikes!).

Still too early to pass judgement, but it seems to resemble the other Nival effort I tried - Silent Storm - ie some very good ideas, but just lacking the production values of major US companies (in terms of polish, story-telling, voice acting, balancing etc). In some way rather amateur, although that may be an insult to modders considering how polished I find some RTW mods like RTR.

[frogbeastegg]

Finally my order has shipped. 24 hour dispatch my left foot :grumble: Now it will arrive neatly in time for me to pick up the package when it comes through the door and head back to work after my two days off. :grumble: The first patch is due in a few days, so there may be some compensation.

econ21, have you found that it is easy to break the scripting in the missions, thus breaking the mission itself? I took a quick glance at the official forums, and saw this complaint arise in roughly half the (admittedly few) threads I mentioned.

Which makes me wonder, just how scripted is the game anyway?

[econ21]

I haven't devoted any more time to it, yet - I've been distracted by the RTR PBEM I've been organising.

The missions I've done - the haven campaign - are very scripted. I haven't broken them, but then I've been dutifully following my orders. I'm uneasy about the whole AI vs scripting issue, but daren't go back to the boards yet. Somethings you just don't want to know.

I should say, though, that Nival's other effort that I played - Silent Storm - had its faults, but bad AI was not one of them, IIRC. Hopefully the patch will deliver - I still can't believe the developer said they left working on the AI until late in the day.

[frogbeastegg]

Got it! With a whole half of a day off left to play it ... once I finish the bit of writing I was working on, and if I drop the book I was going to read.

Installed Heroes 3 Complete, checked the readme and found that it does include both add-ons, which it installs as part of the default. It seems like this is a reissue of the old bundle edition. Loaded it up, and I can't find a version number. Am I likely to need any patches? Also, is there any way to change the resolution? The default is pretty unkind to my eyes on my LCD monitor.

Installed Heroes 4 next. It also has both add-ons. Again, no idea of version number or where I stand on patching. Help? My guess is that if there were patches after the second add-on (whichever that was ...) I might need them.

I had to laugh at the system check messages put out by HOMM3 and 4.

Setup has detected that you have 2GB of memory available on your system. The game requires 32 (or 128 for HOMM4) MB to run. The game may run sluggishly, become unstable, or fail to run at all. DO you wish to continue?"

Oh noes!!!1!1! Sorry, am in a silly mood

Now to install HOMM5.

[econ21]

No, I don't think you'll need any patches, froggy.

Given that you have Homm3 complete, can I recommend at some stage you look for the "Middle-Earth_Allies" map by Jean-Francois Beaudoin? If you like Lotr, it is an amazing map - when you get the hang of it, try playing it as Elves on impossibe. To be honest, it's about all I play with Homm nowadays - periodically, I just load it up and enjoy computer gaming at its finest. It's a small zip, so I can e-mail it to you if you can't find it.

[frogbeastegg]

Great, good, thanks. And yes, I'll take a copy of the scenario, and any others people recommend.

Anything on HOMM3's resolution? The default is not nice at all. :crosses fingers:

Done the first two missions of the first HOMM5 campaign. Nice relaxing little tutorials, quite enjoyable to amble around, if a little dull because they are so easy. The old froggy exploration instinct is still alive and kicking - I hit the level cap on both and still found more resources and battles which I couldn't pass up. I like that; finding things is a good part of the fun for me.

The game's performance is a lot better than the demo's, and I haven't bothered to update my drivers yet either, so it looks like some good tweaking was done. No crashes either. Impossible to comment on the AI because so far there hasn't been any, just stationary parties waiting for me to attack them. One out of two major frog concerns met, with judgement on the other deferred; not bad at all.

The documentation though, gah! The English is a bit squiffy both in-game and in the manual. In the tutorial campaign they keep referring to the hero as "he" when it is plainly and undoubtably a "she". I saw one sentence, a skill description IIRC, which didn't make any sense at all. The manual itself is skimpy. There is nothing about the creatures and skills, and this is my biggest bugbear at present. I've no idea if that party of whatevers is cannon fodder or a bit dangerous until after I have engaged them, no idea what most of my units can do other than the basic and obvious move/hit or move/shoot, no idea what the special abilities and status I see listed on the creature details screen mean, no idea how to use the special abilities, nothing. Gah!

I am definitely finding that having a lot of ranged units is the way to go. With a couple of blocks of simple infantry to stand in front of them and do pretty much nothing at all for the entire battle I can win easy and without much/any damage. Love the human cavalry unit though, so powerful!

Agreed with the comment on the story. Abysmal. Not even consistent in the big details; one minute whatsherface is no warrior and needs protecting, the next she is in her own custom suit of armour off to fetch an army and fight because it is what she has always been good at. Oh well, it doesn’t matter too much, but it is a shame. Some very few strategy games do decent stories, and a good plot would have worked really well with this style of game.

[Blodrast]

Thanks for sharing your impressions, econ21, froggy.
froggy: It's quite interesting that you didn't have any challenges so far in the first couple of missions. In previous games, you often had a bit of a hard time because of the level/skill caps, and because of the AI scripting - you were really harrassed sometimes, and had to run around like crazy to avoid battle.
Also, for unit abilities and such, I think you can have a look at mightandmagic.com, they have all units with their abilities and what not. It's a starting point, if nothing else :)

Also, froggy: it's a matter of taste, of course, but I loved homm3's campaigns - especially some of the ones in Armageddon's Blade. Do give them a spin if you have the time/inclination.

[frogbeastegg]

The first campaign is mainly a tutorial, filled with stationary groups of what must be low-level creatures. I was able to wander around and avoid the groups which looked like they might be hard, saving them for when I had a better hero and army. At which point I steamrollered them as effortlessly as I did all the other parties. So I expect the easiness is intentional, and it will heat up later. I hope. I doubt I am a froggy prodigy.

I did take your suggestion of checking the website. Unfortunately most of that encyclopaedia is still to be compiled, including the actual creature stats.

I will try HOMM3, probably after I finish/get bored with/wait for a patch for HOMM5. I'm going to see if running it in windowed mode will do something for that resolution.

[Blodrast]

hmm, no, I remember I read all the creature stats on a webpage, including nice comparison charts. I am sure of that.
I'll go look it up again, maybe it was somewhere else, although...

edit: Ok, it's not on their website, but I can't remember where I did see it. I know it's out there somewhere... like I said, they had comparison charts and rankings of creatures, as well - just like those that were made for all previous heroes games.

However, all is not bad. You might wanna check out the following page: http://www.celestialheavens.com/viewpage.php?id=520. It contains a nice explanatory "skill wheel", with downloadable flash and xls versions.

[David]

this site?

Good site with explanations of abilities and creatures and such. Also might wanna check the forum.

Great game btw. I'm now at inferno level 3 and it is actually quite challenging. I even had to resign one game and start the level over. Story gets slightly better, probably because demon hero is way cooler than the princess.

[Blodrast]

yup - that's the one, thanks David.
crap, I just wanted to bookmark it and noticed I already had it in my bookmarks. So I could have pointed you out to it yesterday, but I was too blind/stupid. gah.

What can you tell us about the scripted AI ? Is it blindly and stupidly trying to achieve its objectives over and over, with complete disregard of the actual possibility to accomplish them ?

For instance, in previous games, let's say one of the AI's objectives was to capture some town if you had taken it away from him. So, imagine the following scenario: you killed off everything the AI had, except one town, which you're allowing it to keep just because you don't wanna finish the scenario ('cause you're still exploring, leveling up, etc, etc).
While some of the time it would just get stuck in its castle, quite often it would get a week's worth of troops, and march boldly to... "defeat" you. Even though it was friggin' obvious it was overnumbered by orders of magnitude, it would still go ahead with it.
I mean, come on...

[frogbeastegg]

Thanks, looks like a great site. I'm sure I'll spend a few hours reading it all Also liking the skill wheel.

Finished the Queen's campaign all of 10 minutes ago That last level was far easier (and more polished!) than the demo version, or so I found. It could be just experience talking; I have some idea of what I am doing now, instead of blundering about clueless. On to the next one, where hopefully there will be a bit more challenge.

Questions:

1. The griffin. Is it me, or is this unit a bit crap? It's poor in melee combat (at least it certainly felt like it when nearly every other unit in my armies was doing more damage), fragile (I lost soo many of these things!), and its battle dive ability is so slow it doesn't usually get a chance to fire before the battle is over and won. On the rare times it did fire it did pathetic damage, and the griffin dropped into a bad location and got itself beaten up. I can't see why I want to bother with this unit when I can almost anything else.

2. There's a spell called ... instant transportation(?). How does it work? When I tried to use it a few times the cursor only turned into the spellbook in a radius of 1 inch of screen space about my character. Everywhere else, no go. Seems completely pointless, since my hero could walk at least ten times as far in one turn.

3. The counterstrike skill. The description is awful, badly translated, and makes no sense. What on earth does it do? "Allows to upgrade human troops up the tier" Eh? And I don't understand all this training grounds malarkey either; no matter what level of the skill I had, what buildings were in place, I was told that my skill and/or buildings were insufficient to train any of the unit types I had. Since it is the faction’s special unique skill it surely must have a use, ergo I am missing something.

:grumbles about the lack of documentation and translation of the game once again:

[screwtype]

I've only played the demo, but...

1. The griffin. Is it me, or is this unit a bit crap? It's poor in melee combat (at least it certainly felt like it when nearly every other unit in my armies was doing more damage), fragile (I lost soo many of these things!), and its battle dive ability is so slow it doesn't usually get a chance to fire before the battle is over and won. On the rare times it did fire it did pathetic damage, and the griffin dropped into a bad location and got itself beaten up. I can't see why I want to bother with this unit when I can almost anything else.

The upgraded Griffins (I forget what they're called) are pretty useful. Battle dive is actually terrific against ranged units, because they rarely move and are usually still in place when the dive is made. The other advantage of battle dive is the enemy doesn't get a counterattack against the grifs.

The downside is that if the dive misses it leaves the grifs hurt and vulnerable. But this doesn't usually happen so long as you confine its attacks to the ranged units.

3. The counterstrike skill. The description is awful, badly translated, and makes no sense. What on earth does it do? "Allows to upgrade human troops up the tier" Eh? And I don't understand all this training grounds malarkey either; no matter what level of the skill I had, what buildings were in place, I was told that my skill and/or buildings were insufficient to train any of the unit types I had. Since it is the faction’s special unique skill it surely must have a use, ergo I am missing something.

Yeah, it's rather hard to understand, and I never tried using it, but I think the way it works is that you can nominate a unit to protect with your hero, and then whenever that unit is attacked, your hero gets a free shot at the attacker. I think that's what the idea is. But I'm not sure.

[frogbeastegg]

Battle dive is actually terrific against ranged units, because they rarely move and are usually still in place when the dive is made. The other advantage of battle dive is the enemy doesn't get a counterattack against the grifs.

The downside is that if the dive misses it leaves the grifs hurt and vulnerable. But this doesn't usually happen so long as you confine its attacks to the ranged units.

This is what I thought the ability would be great for. In practice I found that I could kill most ranged units in one go with my own archers or with a cavalier or angel unit, and do so faster than the time it takes for battle dive to trigger; battle dive also had a nasty habit of leaving most of the enemy stack alive. It's effectively one attack per two turns, which is bad. Doing things the frog way I cleared out most of the enemy grunts on turn one, got the morale boosts and finished off most of the stragglers with the extra moves this gave me, then killed the ranged units and leftovers on turn 2.

But. It feels like the full game version of that mission is easier than the demo one, so possibly the player's units are stronger here than they normally are. Or the hero is of a far higher level than the enemy one, and so giving massive advantages. There must be something, because the more I think on how easily I sliced through everything I met the more I find it hard to believe Haven is so powerful and the other factions so feeble.

Yeah, it's rather hard to understand, and I never tried using it, but I think the way it works is that you can nominate a unit to protect with your hero, and then whenever that unit is attacked, your hero gets a free shot at the attacker. I think that's what the idea is. But I'm not sure.

You are thinking of a different skill, 'retaliation'. You're right about what it does though.

I found an explanation about training on the site above. It allows a unit to be converted to another unit for a sum of gold, the better the unit you convert the more skill is required. Fair enough ... except I had level 2 of the skill and still couldn't convert peasants, or anything. Hmmmm.

What I still don't know is whether the "Besides, damage dealt on retaliation strikes is increased by X%" part works as I would expect. That alone would make the skill worth buying into.

[David]

Training is the special ability of Haven troops, like Inferno's Gating. Works like this: Build training grounds in town, move hero with ability in town, and use the special ability button. Bottom left, middle of the circle (also for other towns, like artifacts and avenger). You can upgrade troops one tier, ie peasants to archers..

[frogbeastegg]

I'm now at inferno level 3 and it is actually quite challenging. I even had to resign one game and start the level over.

Yep, there's a big difficulty spike right at this mission. I'm happy, because I was still waltzing my way through with ease. I'm less than pleased because it seems yet another of those "Rush! Rush! Rush faster!!!" missions. Being a builder/explorer type I hate that, and after the last two timed missions I was hoping for a break.

I'm still on my first go at the mission, but I think I may need to restart. There are some nasty things on this map, and that Elven hero gets so many units. I guess there is no way to do this one slowly? I can't say how deeply I hate having to rush in any game.

Do like Agrael though He's got a bit of personality.

Still liking the game, only wishing I could return to taking things a bit slower.