HOMM5 demo out

[Lehesu]

What is this game like, exactly? Is it like Disciples 2, as I very much enjoyed that game.

[AntiochusIII]

What is this game like, exactly? Is it like Disciples 2, as I very much enjoyed that game.

Having played Disciples 2, and having played HOMM3 (which, according to all the rumors and hype, is quite the same as this new sequel), I must say they have a lot of differences between them. Disciples 2 is very much concentrated on one single party that is your heart and soul and must be saved at any cost (else all the experience goes to hell), and "grand strategy" is limited to a very individual scope. HOMM series take a wider look on grand strategy and all the cities can be developed (no super capital ala Disciples 2, though) to their own extent, more than one hero can actually be on the frontline (though a main hero is still a preferred strategy), units can be sacrificed for the sake of victory (no lv ups for the grunts), different "holding the empire" systems (Disciples being based on rods on strategic assets and cities to spread the green, while Heroes is, arguably, based on hero, or at least in later games parties of units, presence, protecting the mines and recruting grounds).

Nonetheless, at heart the games are quite the same: very good turn-based fantasy strategies where every choice matters. Although Disciples 2 is far more individual. To sum it up, you probably would like it; but to be safe, you should try HOMM3 first (it is hailed as the series' zenith, and the creators of this new one has deliberately been trying to create HOMM5 as "HOMM3's sequel") and see if you like it.

Talking about Disciples now have me wanting the Rise of the Elves expansion. Dangit!

[Lehesu]

Rise of the Elves is pretty good, although the new mana is not very well implemented. Why should I try 3 instead of waiting for the price on 5 to go down?

[frogbeastegg]

IMO the best thing to do is pick up one of the special HOMM5 packages. If you are in the UK you can get the entire series for £29.99, including all add-ons, as an Amazon exclusive. Outside of the UK the bundles vary; I'd investigate them. Sure I heard about one with HOMM 3 (minus add-ons)and 5 in ...

Myself, I find that most of my time is going into HOMM5. Somehow it feels more fun than what I tried of HOMM3. In 3 the towns were too simple, upgrading them to the maximum was too easy; the higher level units could be reached far faster. Then there's also the many tiny tweaks made to the series, such as showing how many creatures are killed as well as the damage an attack will do when you place the cursor over an enemy unit, or the bar which shows the order in which creatures will get their turns. Small things, yet good improvements, and together they add up. The fixed low resolution doesn't help, it gives me a headache and hurts my eyes after a short time; I still haven't found a way around it. Damn LCD monitors and their native resolutions.

Not that I dislike HOMM3, or have given up on it. Simply, I'll finish with 5 first, because I don't see any reason to do otherwise.

[Gealai]

I wanted to thank all of you for your comments

As HOMM2 was my first love, and HOMM3 the first long-lastingrelationship in the wide gaming world I was keen to see part V of the line. Never played number 4. Looks good indeed, although 3d really is overrated. Reading now stats of HommV while the Ganges is flowing by with the sounds of the Siddarta and mystic fog floating above it. Crazy

Like the sylvians, a bit less the dungeon, however the Acadamy will remain my favorite

[x-dANGEr]

IMO the best thing to do is pick up one of the special HOMM5 packages. If you are in the UK you can get the entire series for £29.99, including all add-ons, as an Amazon exclusive. Outside of the UK the bundles vary; I'd investigate them. Sure I heard about one with HOMM 3 (minus add-ons)and 5 in ...

Myself, I find that most of my time is going into HOMM5. Somehow it feels more fun than what I tried of HOMM3. In 3 the towns were too simple, upgrading them to the maximum was too easy; the higher level units could be reached far faster. Then there's also the many tiny tweaks made to the series, such as showing how many creatures are killed as well as the damage an attack will do when you place the cursor over an enemy unit, or the bar which shows the order in which creatures will get their turns. Small things, yet good improvements, and together they add up. The fixed low resolution doesn't help, it gives me a headache and hurts my eyes after a short time; I still haven't found a way around it. Damn LCD monitors and their native resolutions.

Not that I dislike HOMM3, or have given up on it. Simply, I'll finish with 5 first, because I don't see any reason to do otherwise.

You should give 1 a try.. The most awesome HOMM game ever.. I really rushed for it as soon as it went out (And I was younggggg back then), but it held me for more than a year!!

What I dislike about 5, is how easy to become strong, how hard it makes life for my PC and how limiting is it (If hero XXXX dies, you lose <-- I understand this was in 3, 4 and many others too, but I guess that's why I liked 1 the most).

[Leet Eriksson]

My special edition had HOMM2 is this ordinary

Also is there a place to buy HOMM3 to see why its so good?

HOMM 5 is probably the bestest game i have ever paid for besides Hitman Bloodmoney, its just so much fun!

[Leet Eriksson]

Having played Disciples 2, and having played HOMM3 (which, according to all the rumors and hype, is quite the same as this new sequel), I must say they have a lot of differences between them. Disciples 2 is very much concentrated on one single party that is your heart and soul and must be saved at any cost (else all the experience goes to hell), and "grand strategy" is limited to a very individual scope. HOMM series take a wider look on grand strategy and all the cities can be developed (no super capital ala Disciples 2, though) to their own extent, more than one hero can actually be on the frontline (though a main hero is still a preferred strategy), units can be sacrificed for the sake of victory (no lv ups for the grunts), different "holding the empire" systems (Disciples being based on rods on strategic assets and cities to spread the green, while Heroes is, arguably, based on hero, or at least in later games parties of units, presence, protecting the mines and recruting grounds).

Nonetheless, at heart the games are quite the same: very good turn-based fantasy strategies where every choice matters. Although Disciples 2 is far more individual. To sum it up, you probably would like it; but to be safe, you should try HOMM3 first (it is hailed as the series' zenith, and the creators of this new one has deliberately been trying to create HOMM5 as "HOMM3's sequel") and see if you like it.

Talking about Disciples now have me wanting the Rise of the Elves expansion. Dangit!

I hated the feature where you had to level up your units in Disciples 2, but i have to say it has a rather awesome selection of units! On another note if you carried on your leveled units the game would become a total cakewalk.

[x-dANGEr]

Well I must admit I enjoyed HOMM3, too. I remember riding with my superb hero fearless, and then find out that the enemy's hero am facing has 67 Arch Devils.. Oops! But one warning about HOMM series, once you play the first game, you will stick to it till you finish it, and you may even re-play it. Whatever version it is, you will love it. Though, you need to know that all the graphics and 3D things are only that viable in 5, which annoys me that they haven't used it well enough.. I mean, come on, terrain advantages anyone? Also, their are many abilities un-explained, which only makes it harder for the new guys to the series to play the game and enjoy it. (Just one rule when playing a HOMM, keep playing till you start enjoying it)

[Favre]

Im becoming more and more dissapointed everyday i play the game. The battles get extremely old with like 500 small battles occuring before a decent size battle. I also dont like how strict and close-minded the campaign is, it doesnt allo0w for anything to go wrong without losing the game.

Also, on the last mission of the Haven campaign you face an army of like 2,000 Strong ass creatures, I couldnt even beat them with about 1,200 troops of the highest tier. And amassing 1200 troops takes a long time.

I just wish they had struck a happy balance of number of battles you face.

[Dorkus]

The number of creatures your enemy has depends on how long it takes you to finish the map. As with neutral creature growth, enemy heroes will amass greater numbers (even if they are scripted additions to the scenario) the longer you wait before facing them.

The haven campaign is quite boring. Even on heroic difficulty level, it should be very easy so long as you focus on training. (Priests to cavaliers, and peasants to archers) The inferno campaign is quite fun, however.

Like most heroes games, however, homm5 gets boring as you move through the campaign. When I got to the warlock campaign, I realized that I had already figured everything out about the game, and there was really nothing interesting left to do. I still got something like 20 hours out of it, which is more than any other recent game (and makes homm5 a worthy purchase), but unlike many others, I don't really see replay value, at least in offline play.

Edit: those comments don't really do justice to this game. I am a very critical game player, and I also tend to play through games very quickly. I probably spent around 10 hours researching the games mechanics (and inadvertently learning a lot of tactics for various scenarios), for example, before I even started playing. I would guess that a less impatient player would get significantly more than 20 hours out of this game. And despite teh somewhat negative reviews, I think it's far better than any pc game that has been released this year.

[Favre]

Anyone who has beat the first campaign i have a majr question, What am i supposed to do on the last mission where you must hold off the enemies whi9le they attack dunmoor?


I have taken both Dunmoor and the Demon city, I defeated all their army's, and they dont even get "Red player" turns anymore, Anyone know what i gotta do?

My only objective is to keep Godric + Isabel alive, and yto hold dunmoor. Im already in month 6 almost into 7 :/

[The Wizard]

Is this game anything like Age of Wonders? That game, the last TBS I played, was one of my favorites.

[Dorkus]

yes, it's very similar to age of wonders. if you enjoyed aow, i highly encourage you to play homm5. Different people have different tastes. I'd personally rate the two as about equal (and disciples 2 as superior). But i imagine that's probably a minority position. aow had a lot of polish.

[frogbeastegg]

It's reasonably similar to AoW: turn based fantasy strategy with heroes to build up and put in charge of your armies, magic, a scattering of cities per map to capture and build up, tiered units unique to each faction. I like both.


Myself, I am getting fed up with the rushing. I'm on mission 4 of the inferno campaign, and the entire campaign has been one big rush. I hate using tiny crappy armies to march about in a hurry capturing everything within a couple of weeks, and I don't like playing for long amounts of time only to find the AI cheats have given the AI an impossible army I can't now beat and so must restart and try again. I like to take things slowly and methodically. This was possible in the Haven campaign, though that one was boringly easy. I hope it will be possible in the other campaigns and scenarios; anyone able to give a frog a ray of hope on this?

The AI cheating itself is also annoying me. When I win a battle where I am outnumbered and struggling to win I expect a bit more for my pains in scraping through with hardly anything left than the same hero back next week with an even bigger army he couldn't have raised naturally. I want a challenge, but I want it to come from something fairer than the AI having shedloads of free resources each week, free units, and loads of lucky hits in battle when our luck stats/skills are equal.

I'm still liking the game, but I'd be so much happier if I could slow down and if the AI didn't cheat as outrageously.



Favre, sounds like you have hit a scripting bug, or haven't found the Tears of Asha. Mini walkthrough with a few spoilers:

When I did the mission I captured Dunmore, then rescued Isabel. I then spent a while building up Dunmore, exploring and capturing resources, and creating a grand army. I did not capture the demon town, I could have but decided not to in case it ended the scenario or something. When I owned most of the map I found the tears of Asha, and installed them. At this point I was attacked at Dunmore twice more; on defeating the armies I had a cutscene and a new objective to send Godric for help. I gave him a good army and sent him through the already clear map to the garrison at the bottom right corner, killed them, and marched on through to the bit of road Godric needs to get to. He disappeared, objective complete. It was then a simple case of waiting a turn or three for Nikoli to appear. Despite the objective you aren't meant to join him in battle; just head his way with your army and Isabel, and a cutscene should trigger.

Mission complete.

[x-dANGEr]

About the 'HUGE' armies matter, it's all about having more town to be able to field bigger armies. Story-wise, the game isn't that great, everything is static and nothing varies if you play it again.

[Leet Eriksson]

the campaign is like an introduction to each faction (but it gets tougher with each campaign)

I have to say though, the demon campaign is the worst and puts alot of players off, but once you finish it you are rewarded with the undead campaign, which is in my opinion the best campaign in the game.

The hero of the campaign is a total bastard, and his dialogue is so charming and sarcastic. Really i kid you not, they really put alot of work and talent in the undead campaign, especially the voice of the undead hero Markal, its just so well done.

[frogbeastegg]

About the 'HUGE' armies matter, it's all about having more town to be able to field bigger armies.

But still, it comes down to something I'm not keen on - needing to take as many towns as quickly as possible. Only after taking most of the towns can you relax and look about. Blergh. Taking towns and big battles should be something to look forward to and build for, not something to scramble through with a handful of mostly low level creatures.

And if the main enemy hero has been sat in the main enemy town for a long time building up his army each week and sitting around safely doing nothing while my main hero has to fight lots of battles which drain his creatures then it will take a lot of weeks of sitting there clicking 'end turn' for my towns to produce enough creatures to catch up with and counter that enemy hero.

Maybe my perspective is skewed. The Haven campaign is so limited, and of the missions I've played with inferno 2 have no cities, one is a famously unbalanced pain in the rear, and the fourth I haven't finished yet. I've had two attempts at that mission; on the first I lost because it took me too long to find any towns except the inferno ones, so giant AI armies were hounding Agrael. I won some crazy victories but to no point - I couldn't replace my losses quickly enough. Fair enough; no complaints about that. The second I took two towns in two weeks, captured all nearby resources as well as some distant ones, got a second hero and second army, slaughtered a collection of AI heroes and small armies, and was really doing very well ... until the giant AI armies filled with good units and summoned elementals turned up and massacred my second army and hero, captured the inferno town, mauled Agrael's army down to worthlessness, and then took the second Silvan town. I was building up both towns at a furious rate of knots since the start of week 2, building in both on nearly every turn, and I hadn't reached the higher two levels of units by the time it was over. Eh? How much faster can a frog be?

[Favre]

Favre, sounds like you have hit a scripting bug, or haven't found the Tears of Asha. Mini walkthrough with a few spoilers:

When I did the mission I captured Dunmore, then rescued Isabel. I then spent a while building up Dunmore, exploring and capturing resources, and creating a grand army. I did not capture the demon town, I could have but decided not to in case it ended the scenario or something. When I owned most of the map I found the tears of Asha, and installed them. At this point I was attacked at Dunmore twice more; on defeating the armies I had a cutscene and a new objective to send Godric for help. I gave him a good army and sent him through the already clear map to the garrison at the bottom right corner, killed them, and marched on through to the bit of road Godric needs to get to. He disappeared, objective complete. It was then a simple case of waiting a turn or three for Nikoli to appear. Despite the objective you aren't meant to join him in battle; just head his way with your army and Isabel, and a cutscene should trigger.

Mission complete.

Where are the tears if Asha? I dont believe i have found that.

[Leet Eriksson]

Where are the tears if Asha? I dont believe i have found that.

Its random, every time you start a mission where it requires the tears it is placed randomly, what you have to do is find 3 obelisks gaurded by some neutral creatures and it will reveal part of the puzzle map, once you find all 3 the puzzle map will uncover the location, search around the actual map and see which part is identical to the location in the puzzle map.

to dig it out, end your turn, and do not move your hero, click on dig (takes your entire heroes movement points to dig, if you don't find it it will give you a not so obvious hint (like "its northwest of your location" or something like that).

[Dorkus]

Well, frog, I have to say I disagree with you. You can always relax by playing the game on easy. My own view is that the entire point of this sort of game is to force you to rush -- to take risks on difficult battles, and reload when you lose.

If the AI did not scale up as dramatically as it does, then there would be no challenge -- even at heroic level.

Granted, a few scenarios are a bit extreme. The inferno scenario where you have hordes of elven creatures spawning left and right is such an example. But in general, the time pressure placed on the player seems about right to me. If you take your time capturing mines and building buildings, then you SHOULD pay for it later in the scenario.

[Favre]

I figured out what it was, my cutscene to "find the tears of asha" never came up, that seemed to be the problem.

I re-did it on my own and finished, now im getting pwned on the second campaign. Where do i head to on the 1st mission of second campaign when your running from Godric?

[screwtype]

Is this game anything like Age of Wonders? That game, the last TBS I played, was one of my favorites.

Yeah, it's a lot like AoW.

IMO, the biggest difference, apart from the nice 3D graphics in HOMM5, is the combat. In AoW you get maybe 24 critters on each side in a really big combat, whereas in HOMM you will typically have hundreds.

You might think that would make HOMM combat better but in my opinion it doesn't. The battlemap in HOMM looks suprisingly cheesy for a 3D game, it looks like a glorified chessboard basically. And after a while, I started to find the combat quite tedious and to be dreading having to slug my way through yet another battle.

That's quite a different experience than I had in AoW II and III where the combat can be really tense as you struggle to belt that last hitpoint off that last monster. I've had heaps of really epic, nailbiting combats in the AoW games, but the only thing I've really found epic about the HOMM combat is the frickin' time you spend slogging through them (actually, the combats in HOMM are probably much quicker to resolve, but because there are so many of them, after a while they really start to bug you).

Doesn't mean that HOMM5 is no fun, but playing through five levels of the demo didn't really grab me enough to consider forking over the cash for it. Maybe when it goes budget I will pick it up.

And then, there's nothing in HOMM quite like getting that first Wizard's tower up and running. Gives me a stiffy every time.

[The Wizard]

Sounds good. Age of Wonders indeed was a very exciting game. If the combat of HOMM5 isn't as good as that, I'll ask about the next most important thing: the story. Can it compete with, for instance, Age of Wonder's quite enthralling one?

[Blodrast]

About the combat: well, one can always use the quick-combat option.
I've only played the Haven campaign so far, but I agree that it can get boring to fight 264 neutral stacks per minute...

Dorkus: Since I haven't yet played all the campaigns, I can't say whether the campaigns in homm5 are better or worse than in previous games. I can, however, tell you that I for one spent many many great hours playing the hundreds of community-created maps for both homm3 and homm4...

These are, after all, two of the biggest lacks this game has (imo): the lack of scenarios (I remember previous games had something close to a hundred scenarios, and each add-on brought more), and the lack of a map/scenario editor. Hopefully those will be released soon, and the community will get to work :)

[frogbeastegg]

You can always relax by playing the game on easy.

Blergh, No thanks. I don't want to play against an AI which does nothing. There is a vast difference between playing something with no challenge at all, and playing something with a steep challenge in which you can take your time a bit. Most strategy games offer various paths for success, with rusher being only one of them, each having strong and weak points. If the game is reasonably balanced than all paths are viable, though often some are stronger than others.

to take risks on difficult battles, and reload when you lose.

And that's where I disagree. Reloading after setbacks is as good as cheating and destroying half the challenge and fun - it gives you no chance to make a comeback.

If you take your time capturing mines and building buildings, then you SHOULD pay for it later in the scenario.

I do take mines quickly, and explore. I get most of the random resources, kill most of the neutral stacks, and so on. I build up frantically - there's not a turn goes by in which I do not build if I can afford it, and I can afford it most turns. Heck, in my last game I had the resources coming in to upgrade two towns at once, turn after turn. Believe me I'm not being slow or idle.

The problem is that in the levels I've played so far the AI starts out with a massive lead, and there is no choice or other way to win but to rush to crush that advantage. I don't mind such maps once in a while. It’s like my other type of disliked maps: time limited ones. Inferno has been nothing but those two types. Are the other campaigns different?

This combines with the AI's cheating for resources. I hate cheating AI; I accept it as necessary in some circumstances, if the cheating is limited and the AI has some decent level of play in the first place. I don't like an AI which ignores mines and resources half the time, a lack which is compensated for by its being given resources for free. It's sad when I can send an army into enemy territory and find most of the neutral stuff is still untouched, ready for me to take advantage of. It's sadder when I then get pulped during that expedition by an army the AI couldn't hope to fund. Make the AI pick up the miens and resources, then let it cheat if necessary.

I also think that battles for cities should be a bit more than a few tiny bunches of low level units fighting it out.



Think I might skip over Inferno’s last two missions and try one of the other factions. Or try one of the scenarios.


Favre, try this thread; it’s a collection of posts on the various missions of the inferno campaign. There’s some at the start on mission 1. Myself I followed what felt like the obvious path, using the chests for experience instead of gold, and getting Agrael the line of skills which boost travelling speed. Did it on my first go; as long as you don't explore too much or waste your units in too many fights against the more dangerous neutrals it's easy enough.

[x-dANGEr]

I think the challenge in the game is to customize your hero to be able to catch up with the enemy. A thing I always liked about the game, a level 20 hero with 5 luck/morale and 1 cavalier can beat a level 1 hero with 10.