Any new spartan unit in the making?

[khelvan]

We might as well solicit the various explanations for going either way with the look of the Spartiates now, so as to avoid a little bit of the sh*tstorm that will happen when we reveal them, no matter what we choose.

Our current working version, which has generated a LOT of heated debate, looks rather extravagant. Worked bronze cuirass, with elaborate bronze trimmings and the like. It is, in fact, the best looking unit we've done yet (in my opinion). However, the debate over how rich they should look is, as I said, rather heated. So, we might as well get the ball rolling here and get all the sources laid out for going either way. People may even have sources we haven't read, which will help the decision making process.

[paullus]

Just to clarify, the Spartan unit is meant to be a sort of agema equivalent, right? That is, not at all a common unit, or even the main unit to be recruited at Sparte.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

They are spartiates - property owners and citizens of Sparta. They existed in small numbers (400 - 1000 ?) around the time of our game (with only about 100 as large scale property owners at the start possibly), and then reforms in the 240's opened it up a lot more to other Lakonians and greatly increased their numbers (but diluted them also in some senses). These men had more than likely also served as mercenaries (often led by their own king) in places like Egypt and South Italy and Crete.

[paullus]

Righto. And now I understand the problem in depicting the suckers. Most served in more traditional hoplite roles when serving as mercenaries, but in a few of the surviving battle narratives (eg Sellasia) they seem to fight more as Makedones. So at Sellasia, the perioikoi seem to fight more as traditional hoplites, while the Spartiates fight in a phalanx match with Antigonos' phalanx. The same may be the case at Mantinea. But even if this were the case (these are just two examples, and not conclusive by any means), surely you might expect a more traditional unit, like that Akrotatos had with him in attacking the Chaonians?

[Chester]

Just do what you people have always done, go with the most historically sound choice. It's a shame that the Spartan is really nice looking, you may have to nerf it, and that could hurt the skinner.

Definately go with what the EB greek historian feels is the most accurate look. If people want pretty units, they already have lots of them. I feel EB greeks and successor states have some of the most beautiful units in the game, or in a mod period. So don't feel guilty about it.

[khelvan]

Well, that's the thing. We have multiple Greek historians and we have a rather lengthy unresolved internal debate going on about it. Thus, the more information we bandy about, be it here or internally, the better.