this is getting too complicated for meOriginally Posted by Gertgregoor
![]()
next thign we need is a pie-cake to make the confusion whole...
a pie wich has a layer of puddig is complicated? they exist tough, I've eate a lot of them. But never eard about a pie-cake tough.Originally Posted by jerby
Oh well you can't help it, you are just Dutch. (here we go again, long time tough)
You would think it wouldn't be tooo terribly difficult, with the battle against Pyrrhus taking place in the exact year of the EB start. But its quite problematic. Here are a couple of thoughts I have:
1) Sparta has gotten wealthier, and many Spartiates *may* have had lax discipline compared to their forbears.
2) Some sort of elite Spartan unit existed. Mentioned in Plutarch's Pyrrhus, they kill Ptolemaios in a rear guard action in the Argolid before being crushed by Epirote cav. These would probably be the unit EB would want to create. Funny thing about this unit, one of the soldiers in it (the one who killed Ptolemaios) is described as a Kretan, so unless he was a special case (he is noted for his size and skill), the "epilektwn lakedaimoniwn" (Plut. Pyrrh. 30.6) may not have even been composed of equals at that time (perhaps because the numbers were so small).
B2) If we take these as the unit, they are noted as impetuous, and HIGHLY effective.
C) Spartan units eventually fight as phalangites...these could be represented through existing units.
"The mere statement of fact, though it may excite our interest, is of no benefit to us, but when the knowledge of the cause is added, then the study of history becomes fruitful." -Polybios
It's mostly the question of things like embellishments on the armor - if we have a metal cuirass instead of a linen one, could it have engravings on it? Could the greaves have some decoration? Is the helmet purely smooth, or would some design on it be acceptable? Some low level Hellenic units even have helmet decoration, so is it too strict to say these can't?
We pretty much have agreed to drop any pattern on the cloak and any fancy border on it - that was the big first move.
hmm,We pretty much have agreed to drop any pattern on the cloak and any fancy border on it
but wasnt it mentioned before, that spartan hoplites didnt were there cloaks when they go to battle?
Make them naked like the Gaestae.
We all know my opinion ;)Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou
'It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.'
~Voltaire
'People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid. ' - Soren Kierkegaard
“A common danger tends to concord. Communism is the exploitation of the strong by the weak. In Communism, inequality comes from placing mediocrity on a level with excellence.” - Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
EB Unit Coordinator
I would rather see the more historical unit....looks kinda odd when Spartans have outdated equipment.
The question isn't so much whether or not to use a historian skin, the question is what exactly is historical. We're debating that at the moment.
History is for the future not the past. The dead don't read.
Operam et vitam do Europae Barbarorum.
History does not repeat itself. The historians repeat one another. - Max Beerbohm
Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou
Uhh this is getting bad, there won't be a cloak will there be?
All the sources I've read say the Spartans never wore their cloaks in combat, they left them in the camp.
"It's true that when it's looked at isolated, Rome II is a good game... but every time I sit down to play it, every battle, through every turn, I see how Rome I was better. Not unanimously, but ultimately." - Dr. Sane
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6eaBtzqqFA#t=1h15m33s
There are cloaks on the unit. I didn't supply the specs for the unit equipment - maybe the person who did will post, but I doubt it unless the conversation gets heated.
Bookmarks