Any new spartan unit in the making?

**Imperator of rome** · 04-19-2006, 17:55

I would rather see the more historical unit....looks kinda odd when Spartans have outdated equipment.

**QwertyMIDX** · 04-19-2006, 21:22

The question isn't so much whether or not to use a historian skin, the question is what exactly is historical. We're debating that at the moment.

**paullus** · 04-20-2006, 04:24

Can you really say "what exactly is historical"? We're dealing with several hundred years of pretty significant changes--political, social, economic and presumably military. Historically, the elite of the equals in 272 probably looked different from the elites in 222, and so on. Even within the soldiers in 272, some of the soldiers probably had fancier cuirasses than others. And unless you know of some Hellenistic period greaves or tomb paintings or reliefs or cuirasses from Sparta, then its all pretty speculative anyway.

And may I suggest being willing to make a small stretch by including "beauty" as a factor in discerning reasonability/accuracy, especially in a speculative case like this one.

**Teleklos Archelaou** · 04-20-2006, 04:39

My thoughts pretty much paullus. We are going to err, of course, in our depiction. Too many variables to account for especially given the restrictions of our game engine. But I'm willing to err a little more on the side of having more elaborate gear than erring too much on the other side (plus, I like countering the general idea most folks have of the artistically-deprived Spartans, which isn't the case).

I would note that any elaborate metalwork would probably have come from outside of Lakonia at this time though. I haven't mentioned this internally yet, but today I've been reading a little more about "Lakonian artistic production and the problem of spartan austerity". Lakonian metalwork itself really did suffer at this point in their history (especially as compared to the boom in the sixth century), but as these men have mostly served as mercs, much of their armor was acquired outside of Lakonia.

**Forgus** · 04-20-2006, 14:42

Continuing the internal struggle outside - though I sworn to remain silent -
To me a metal cuirass - well probably, fancy graves? - maybe. Helm fit for a king - hmmm, if you say so. But these together? Hardly. Pompous enough for a monach in Persia...

**Teleklos Archelaou** · 04-20-2006, 15:24

From what I've heard, one of those three will also be simplified Forgus, in addition to the cloak. So maybe we can all come to an agreement, or at least closer to one. I'm anxiously awaiting the screenshots.

I do think a little discussion out here is a good thing.

**paullus** · 04-20-2006, 15:39

As far as luxuries, you could look at it this way: many of these guys (may) have served in the armies of Seleukus or Ptolemy etc, and been well paid. In the case of Ptolemy especially, they could very well have been paid the money to afford or even straight-up given very nice equipment. How do you think the first couple of Ptolemy's (nearly) blew the bank? I mean, I haven't seen the concepts you guys are throwing around, but a well-accoutred (though not gaudy) soldier seems pretty reasonable.

And what are you thinking for the shields? A hoplon I hope, but what would you put on it?
And just what did you mean by "a helm fit for a king"?
Thanks!

**fallen851** · 08-02-2006, 06:31

I'll be happy with any Spartan that doesn't have a red cloak on.

Which reminds me, who did the research for CA on this period?

The Spartans never wore their red cloaks in combat!

**Avicenna** · 08-03-2006, 17:07

Originally Posted by fallen851

I'll be happy with any Spartan that doesn't have a red cloak on.

Which reminds me, who did the research for CA on this period?

The Spartans never wore their red cloaks in combat!

I think the Spartans did. I don't think the objective was to have them look terrifying only in front of their allies and subordinates in the camp. They were meant to terrify the opposition.