Rascism on the rise in UK?

[Justiciar]

I'd say both tbh. For different reasons, perhaps, but if you've ever seen a BNP march or rally (my grandmother marched into one once hurling abuse at them.. go her) you'll probably see a few more older faces. That said young hormonal males tend to be easy pickings for far-right groups.

[Tribesman]

No they are not the same, and you as well as I know that- but you are making this an issue when it is not what was originally being debated.
Well Lancelot the issue is that this......I dont see why there is an automatic connection between people who may consider voting BNP and the race issue...does voting BNP make you a racist becuase other BNP members possibly are?
is rubbish .
The BNP is a racist organisation , it always has been and always will be , it is not racist because a few of its members "possibly" are , it is racist because of its policies .

So you think you have exploited our system etc etc, yet think you think that is somehow acceptable?
Too damn right it is acceptable , ask any businessman , that is what businesss is about and why a decent accountant is worth the cost . You exploit the system wherever you work for as much as you can .
So do you have issues with British people registering their firms in Singapore to exploit tax loopholes ?
Do you have issues with British people taking their British earned money and buying a home in Spain ?
Do you have issues with British poeple who become Manx or Channel Islanders to avoid tax ?
Do you have issues British with people retiring to Florida and stil getting their British pension?
Or is it only when foriegners do it that you have a problem ?
In which case ...In fact I consider the word 'racist' ascribed to a lot more things than it should be....
...you don't understand the word racist at all .
As is illustrated by .....Personally, would I lose any sleep if all non-nationals/immigrants had to leave the UK tomorrow....Id have to say probably not....does this mean I hate these people or think Im somehow better than them? No, not at all......if you don't think you are somehow better then why should they have to leave ?

[lancelot]

Too damn right it is acceptable , ask any businessman , that is what businesss is about and why a decent accountant is worth the cost . You exploit the system wherever you work for as much as you can .
So do you have issues with British people registering their firms in Singapore to exploit tax loopholes ?
Do you have issues with British people taking their British earned money and buying a home in Spain ?
Do you have issues with British poeple who become Manx or Channel Islanders to avoid tax ?
Do you have issues British with people retiring to Florida and stil getting their British pension?
Or is it only when foriegners do it that you have a problem ?

Well, if you read my last post I already mentioned I dont like the fact that Uk corporations purposely hire immigrants so they dont have to pay a national a decent wage for the same job, so yes I do disagree with all the things you mention...they are all exploiting the system.

In which case ...In fact I consider the word 'racist' ascribed to a lot more things than it should be....
...you don't understand the word racist at all .
As is illustrated by .....Personally, would I lose any sleep if all non-nationals/immigrants had to leave the UK tomorrow....Id have to say probably not....does this mean I hate these people or think Im somehow better than them? No, not at all......if you don't think you are somehow better then why should they have to leave ?

I defined my understanding of racism as such-

I believe if person A considers themselves genetically or intrinsically superior or irrationally hate person B becuase they are of a certain race then that is racism.

If you think other factors in the definition of race come into racism, then I submit that it is you who does not understand the word racism.

You apprently ascribe economics, nationality and political beliefs into race and what is/is not a racist.

I purposely left all mention of race out of the discussion regarding immigration/right to work etc etc....

[L'Impresario]

I dont like the fact that Uk corporations purposely hire immigrants so they dont have to pay a national a decent wage for the same job, so yes I do disagree with all the things you mention...they are all exploiting the system

Free market economy maybe? Why doesn't the invisible hand apply here heh

[Tribesman]

I purposely left all mention of race out of the discussion regarding immigration/right to work etc etc....
Ah I see , so it isn't racism , it is foriegnism

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

Ah I see , so it isn't racism , it is foriegnism

I forgot that the U.K. is a monoethnic, monoracial, monocultural state




edit: look at us, we could be twins.

[Duke of Gloucester]

Here BKB Makes a good point, alot of Racism that goes on today is Blacks and asians against whites. White guys just see it as yet another mugging and, too be frank, cannot be bothered to play the race card. But if a white guy attacks a black guy or asian, its a racial assault.

That was not quite the point that BKB makes. Blacks, Asians and other ethnic groups will experience more racism in the UK. This is not because they are more moral than whites: it is because they are minorities. There are probably the same percentage of racists in each group, but minorities are more vulnerable and our society should protect vulnerable people.

Well, if you read my last post I already mentioned I dont like the fact that Uk corporations purposely hire immigrants so they dont have to pay a national a decent wage for the same job, so yes I do disagree with all the things you mention...they are all exploiting the system.

Very often it is the public sector that does this. Corporations that require cheaper labour tend to re-locate to countries where wages are lower, but you can't relocate a hospital or move your school to a third world country to get it cleaned in the evening.

Well, I think we are getting into profoundly different territory there...and in a way I agree, immigrants do do a lot of the work here that no one else is willing to do... as I said that is part of a different issue- that of corporate greed and companies purposely seeking people who will work to line their own pockets, instead of paying someone a decent wage for the work...which is equally unaccpetable.

"purposely seeking people who will work to line their own pockets"

Why else do people work?

Are you accepting that imigrants are being exploited since they are not being paid a decent wage? If so, why are you prepared to accept them being re-patriated?

I defined my understanding of racism as such-

I believe if person A considers themselves genetically or intrinsically superior or irrationally hate person B becuase they are of a certain race then that is racism.

If you think other factors in the definition of race come into racism, then I submit that it is you who does not understand the word racism.

I am not sure that you can rationally hate a person because they are of a certain race. In any case, even if "irrational" is removed, I think this definition of racism is too restricted, because it allows people to hold racist views and promote racist policies and still say it is not because of these peoples' race that I hold this view or this policy will not be carried out in a spirit of hate. Political exploitation of racism involves indentifying a group, blaming them for a problem and drawing up policies to target that group. It does not matter whether the problem is unemployment, eccononic decline or "erosion of our culture". If you blame and then target a particular ethnic group, you are a racist. This is what the BNP does. They are racists.

[lancelot]

"purposely seeking people who will work to line their own pockets"

Why else do people work?

I think I didnt express myself properly here, I meant -

that of corporate greed and companies purposely seeking people who will work for cheap to line their own corporate pockets, instead of paying someone a decent wage for the work...which is equally unaccpetable.

I have added in words that should clear my previous statement up.

I am not sure that you can rationally hate a person because they are of a certain race. In any case, even if "irrational" is removed, I think this definition of racism is too restricted, because it allows people to hold racist views and promote racist policies and still say it is not because of these peoples' race that I hold this view or this policy will not be carried out in a spirit of hate.

I think you are highlighting the exact problems I was trying to comment on in my original posts, namely- the definition of racism. You feel my definition is too restriceted- thats fine, not everybody will agree...however I see the lack of restriction as part of the problem. I feel the term racist is too loosley defined, hence my more restricted definition.

I feel that the race card gets played far too liberally and hence what is/is not racist can get muddied and confused.

Yes people can hold racist views and promote racist policies and still say it is not because of these peoples' race- but that would be lying...and anybody can do that about anything. Because people can say one thing while meaning the other does not mean that the definition of racism should be thrown wide open to cover as much ground as possible.

Political exploitation of racism involves indentifying a group, blaming them for a problem and drawing up policies to target that group. It does not matter whether the problem is unemployment, eccononic decline or "erosion of our culture". If you blame and then target a particular ethnic group, you are a racist. This is what the BNP does. They are racists.

Again, yes- the nefarious politicain can use politics to identify a group with underlying race motives...but I think we are moving away from what defines racism to how racism can be used, which is a different issue.

Lets look at it another way...lets take your average 1940's SS Nazi.

1) He hates Jews, blacks, gypsies and many other groups, he despises them, he thinks he and his race are better than aforementioned groups, he thinks they are all scum...clearly some hefty racism.

He also thinks- 2) That only germans should be allowed to live and work in germany. This is nationalism.

Remove section 2, you still have a racist...remove section 1 and you have a nationalist...there is no race issue. Nationalism does not equal racism.

Thats all Im saying...if people are talking about race...then talk about race, dont throw half a dozen other things into the pot and call it race.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

That was not quite the point that BKB makes. Blacks, Asians and other ethnic groups will experience more racism in the UK. This is not because they are more moral than whites: it is because they are minorities. There are probably the same percentage of racists in each group, but minorities are more vulnerable and our society should protect vulnerable people.

Mate come to Birmingham and you will clearly see the Asian and Black communities are most certainly not the minority, that is not hearsay that is a fact.

Minorities get racist abuse the world over, i have seen young carib youths scream racist abuse at asian women, i have seen a white old fella at my train station get called "What a looking at you white f****r?" by asian youths and so much more examples i could write page after page of them. Mate come to the big cities and you will see this idea of multi-culturalism is garbage, people don't always walk hand in hand, you get racism everywhere on all sides, often regardless of colour, the Caribbean's of Brum hate the black africans and have been merrily gone around hated and battering one enough for years. Asian, black and white areas often separate themselves and all you see is divide.

I don't know what Gloucester is like but in Birmingham its the way i have described it. I don't know about anywhere else but i have lived in brum most of my life and have seen it with my own eyes.