Latino Land

[Alexanderofmacedon]

I saw some stuff on the "O Reilly Factor" and "hannity and colmes" about the latinos wanting a new country with the land from Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California. I tried to find a link on FoxNews, but couldn't find one. The new land is (from what I heard, which may not be right) called Aslan or something.

Anyone have any idea what I'm talking about?

[Strike For The South]

They can take Texas when they pry it from my cold dead hands I think your talking about the illegal immgrant riots there were things said along thoose lines. My above point stands however

[GeneralHankerchief]

about the latinos wanting a new country

I don't buy that.

Wasn't the whole point of the protests the fact that illegals wanted the same rights as actual Americans?

American rights won't do them much good if they're not in America.

[Strike For The South]

I doubt it.... I will not tolerate this flag I will not tolerate having to leran spainish I will not tolerate the unwashed hordes coming over my border. Send them back shut the borders off. These people come and make pockets of poverty we donot need and destroy culture

[solypsist]

i can see where this is going.

"unwashed hordes?"

typing in a political and cultural opinion can be done, properly and effectively, without stooping to such levels of language.

if country bashing is not allowed herethen this sort of thing (in the terms below) isn't, either.

you know - i just came back, a few hours ago, from what was a fantastic trip from austin through the hill country to dfw and i left feeling good. as silyl as it may sound to some, i really did feel a sense of state pride wash over me as i saw streets with historic names like san jacinto and san saba. the capper was reading a cormac mccarthy book on the plane back to nyc. now after seeing this post i have nothing but a sour feeling about my former home; i think overreactive posts make texas look bad. thanks a lot.

I doubt it.... I will not tolerate this flag I will not tolerate having to leran spainish I will not tolerate the unwashed hordes coming over my border. Send them back shut the borders off. These people come and make pockets of poverty we donot need and destroy culture

[Redleg]

i can see where this is going.

"unwashed hordes?"

typing in a political and cultural opinion can be done, properly and effectively, without stooping to such levels of language.

if country bashing is not allowed herethen this sort of thing (in the terms below) isn't, either.

you know - i just came back, a few hours ago, from what was a fantastic trip from austin through the hill country to dfw and i left feeling good. as silyl as it may sound to some, i really did feel a sense of state pride wash over me as i saw streets with historic names like san jacinto and san saba. the capper was reading a cormac mccarthy book on the plane back to nyc. now after seeing this post i have nothing but a sour feeling about my former home; i think overreactive posts make texas look bad. thanks a lot.

Did you take any good pictures of the Hill Country. Some of the best Terrian is in that part of the state. The Devils Backbone was one of my favorite Drives coming out of San Marcos.

[Strike For The South]

Sour Feeling? Becuase I dont want Texan culture underminded? Soly I know your smatter than that. Acouple of points

-There here illegaly in the first place

-They drive down wages to the point were no one else will work that job becuase it isnt enough money to sustain themsleves

-With there low wages they are forced to buy/rent substandard housing further creating proverty and probably sustaing it into future generations

-Many make no attempnt to assamilte they wave there flags and speak Spainish in public settings which goes agianst "wannting to be American in the first place"

-Its not only them its the spineless poloticans on captiol hill who are letting this happen and wont do anything.

So we have a illegal group of people who are hurting the economy and promoting proverty while making no attepmnts to assimalte and the poloticans who wont do anything and you dont care?

I live in the hill country it is bueatiful

[Alexanderofmacedon]

ON TOPIC: Have any of you heard what I'm talking about?

[JimBob]

Aztlan is, some chicanos believe, a 'racial zion'. Aztlan happens to be the American Southwest it was big during the 60s and 70s with the chicano movements. The Brown Berets and such.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztlan#...fied_as_Aztlan

[Redleg]

Aztlan is, some chicanos believe, a 'racial zion'. Aztlan happens to be the American Southwest it was big during the 60s and 70s with the chicano movements. The Brown Berets and such.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztlan#...fied_as_Aztlan

They still exist but are much more low key then in the past. I saw some of the standard protest signs from the Aztlan movement - ie the land is stolen and other such signs - but all in all they were not very representive of the majority of the protests or protestors.

[Soulforged]

Sour Feeling? Becuase I dont want Texan culture underminded? Soly I know your smatter than that. Acouple of points

Sorry to dissapoint you STFS but culture is ever changing you cannot anchor it where you please. Besides that culture will be "undermined" even if the inmigrants were legal.

-They drive down wages to the point were no one else will work that job becuase it isnt enough money to sustain themsleves

Is there a link to know how this econimic process takes place?

-With there low wages they are forced to buy/rent substandard housing further creating proverty and probably sustaing it into future generations

Again another economic information that shocks me...

-Many make no attempnt to assamilte they wave there flags and speak Spainish in public settings which goes agianst "wannting to be American in the first place"

This is funny I thought that "wanting to be American in the first place", meant something in the lines of freedom of something, maybe you can remember it. To you then, they cannot speak they native language in public, because in some strange way it "undermines" your culture or offends your morallity? How does this all works, I'm stunned...

...unwashed hordes...

I wash myself every day, can I go?

[Strike For The South]

Sorry to dissapoint you STFS but culture is ever changing you cannot anchor it where you please. Besides that culture will be "undermined" even if the inmigrants were legal.

No culture isnt ever changing espacilly not this qucikly

Is there a link to know how this econimic process takes place?

Its simple a man gets paid 10$ hr for a job then another man comes along saying he will do it for 5. It is happening.

This is funny I thought that "wanting to be American in the first place", meant something in the lines of freedom of something, maybe you can remember it. To you then, they cannot speak they native language in public, because in some strange way it "undermines" your culture or offends your morallity? How does this all works, I'm stunned...

Yes freedom but you first must speak english accept the culutre ETC. Then you can speak spainsih or play with you culture.

I wash myself every day, can I go?

If you are going to try to portray me as a gringo racist you couldnt be farther from the truth the illegals and regular mexicans are completly diffrent.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

No culture isnt ever changing espacilly not this qucikly



Its simple a man gets paid 10$ hr for a job then another man comes along saying he will do it for 5. It is happening.



Yes freedom but you first must speak english accept the culutre ETC. Then you can speak spainsih or play with you culture.



If you are going to try to portray me as a gringo racist you couldnt be farther from the truth the illegals and regular mexicans are completly diffrent.

SFTS, best friend is Mexican, don't you guys forget it...

[Soulforged]

No culture isnt ever changing espacilly not this qucikly

Yes it's. Every time you learn a new word on spanish and speak it to your fellow man you're inititing a long process of change.

Its simple a man gets paid 10$ hr for a job then another man comes along saying he will do it for 5. It is happening.

Sorry but that's not as simple as it sounds. When you've an stable employee who works for 10/h you don't have to pay his training, or pay his the recesion of the contract (is that the expression in english?), nor waste any time, wich may cost a lot more to your company than to pay less salary. Companies very rarely change all employers simply because they want more salary than others, for moral reasons and for prudential reasons as well.

Yes freedom but you first must speak english accept the culutre ETC. Then you can speak spainsih or play with you culture.

So if I go as a turist I should learn to speak english first? Should it be a fluent english? Should I learn to spell it right? Should I know to express every sentence in it? Freedom of expression means exactly that. Beyond that matter I don't see why? Is there some higher purpose in your desire?

If you are going to try to portray me as a gringo racist you couldnt be farther from the truth the illegals and regular mexicans are completly diffrent.

I don't know you, I'm in the internet. However that was only a friendly joke, and sarcastic, I'm pretty sure that you didn't meant to call all latin americans "unwashed hordes" did you?

[Alexanderofmacedon]

I'm pretty sure that you didn't meant to call all latin americans "unwashed hordes" did you?

I don't stick up for him much, but Anthony didn't mean it that far...

[Louis VI the Fat]

In real life, not long ago I had a conversation with a girl from Argentina. As we discussed immigration, to my surprise she suddenly started a rant about illegal immigration into Argentina. In a language that would make SFTS blush, she repeated all the arguments about illegal immigration that people have raised here too. Also, there was a significant degree of racism in it, especially when she spoke about Bolivians.

Poverty always moves. The poor naturally move towards richer areas. And I can't blame them, not at all.
Nor do I blame the ones on the recieving end of this movement, for this proces does pose a serious threat to their position.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

In real life, not long ago I had a conversation with a girl from Argentina. As we discussed immigration, to my surprise she suddenly started a rant about illegal immigration into Argentina. In a language that would make SFTS blush, she repeated all the arguments about illegal immigration that people have raised here too. Also, there was a significant degree of racism in it, especially when she spoke about Bolivians.

Poverty always moves. The poor naturally move towards richer areas. And I can't blame them, not at all.
Nor do I blame the ones on the recieving end of this movement, for this proces does pose a serious threat to their position.

Exactly why it's too hard!

[BigTex]

Originally posted by Caravellini
What is "texan culture" and how would it be "undermined" by a few immigrants, that according to you can't even speak the same language? All cultures are constantly changing, such is life, the only way to avoid such change, or put it off, is to force the culture into isolation, e.g. like some of the Andean Indians or central african tribes who have no contact with the rest of the world. What kind of culture is this that is so fragile that it can be seemingly eroded by a few immigrants that don't interact much with your's anyway because of the language barrier?

You need to do some more research on Texas. We are already the 2nd largest state in the country and we are the fastest growing state in the country. It is not a few immigrants but a few tens of millions. The USA is already the fastest growing 1st world nation and we happen to be the states thats growing the fastest, so no its not a frail culture, its a culture thats being changed by so many moving here. The 22 million illegal immigrants are slowly trying to turn Texas into Mexico, something since our great states creation we have opposed. You seem to forget that over the centurys a good number of wars and smaller skirmishes have been fought between Texas and Mexico. It is not a few immigrants with a language barrier, its millions, that would cuase any nation, state, or province major problems, stop trying to minimalize the problem so you can get another round of Texas bashing in.

This is not exactly their fault, but the fault of your country/state, that is allowing these people in as cheap labour, for exploitation.

Wrong, when the floods of illegal immigration from Mexico has cuased the drop in wages then, yes it is their problem.

They are not promoting poverty, how can poverty be promoted? The entire reason that they are there because they want a better life. Their own countries are impoverished undemocratic messes. Many of the problems in south and central america have been caused by US interference and exploitation. Now they're coming to your country, and you don't like it. Yes the mess you've made is coming back to haunt you, and unfortunately you're too close and convenient to avoid it, like Spain can (and they started it all).

The USA interference was minimal in most south american countries. Most of the problems are caused by virrus like corruption or the drug lords. Sure you could blame US hippes for supplying the demand for the drugs, but its not just the US hippy's but the European hippies using south american drugs.

As a person that is married to one of the "unwashed hordes" you refer to I could take exception, happily I've become accustomed to the inherent racist ignorance in western society so your words are nothing new to me.

He is not refering to Legall as "unwashed hordes" but the millions of illegal immigrants. Texas has always been the anti-mexico we won our independence from that country a century ago and the number of illegal immigrants swell across the Rio Grande is causing that raw area to be rubed sore. It is not racist to want to defend your state and country from an invasion by another. Though I do find through your words you hate the US, what would that make you?

Actually it's quite funny that, while advocating a free trade zone, no US government will ever advocate free movement of persons, sticking only to capital and products, for many, many years to come. The wealth disparity between the two countries is so great tho, that the market tries to regulate this, esp. when barriers are posed.
Ofcourse pushing for the deregulation and opening of foreign markets is easier than your own.

Mexico has some of the harshest immigration laws in the world of any non communist country. Most of their army is used to prevent ANY immigration into their country from south american countries. Most south american countries also have insanely harsh laws to prevent immigration. Compared to south/central America, we have an open border policy.

[L'Impresario]

Mexico has some of the harshest immigration laws in the world of any non communist country. Most of their army is used to prevent ANY immigration into their country from south american countries. Most south american countries also have insanely harsh laws to prevent immigration. Compared to south/central America, we have an open border policy.

Yes, but the other american countries aren't part of a treaty with Mexico, similar to NAFTA, not?
OTOH, the border control situation in Latin American countries is rather fickle, with many disputes and non-controllable borders, a characteristic example being Colombia and its neighbours.

[caravel]

You need to do some more research on Texas. We are already the 2nd largest state in the country and we are the fastest growing state in the country. It is not a few immigrants but a few tens of millions. The USA is already the fastest growing 1st world nation and we happen to be the states thats growing the fastest, so no its not a frail culture, its a culture thats being changed by so many moving here. The 22 million illegal immigrants are slowly trying to turn Texas into Mexico, something since our great states creation we have opposed. You seem to forget that over the centurys a good number of wars and smaller skirmishes have been fought between Texas and Mexico. It is not a few immigrants with a language barrier, its millions, that would cuase any nation, state, or province major problems, stop trying to minimalize the problem so you can get another round of Texas bashing in.

While I can appreciate some of what you're saying, how exactly is this the Mexican's fault? If your government was interested in controlling it's borders more efficiently then surely this wouldn't happen? Also I'm not "Texas Bashing" as I haven't as yet posted a single bad word about Texas.

Wrong, when the floods of illegal immigration from Mexico has cuased the drop in wages then, yes it is their problem.

It may be their problem but they are not directly responsible for it. Any government can bar excessive immigration if it want's to do so.

The USA interference was minimal in most south american countries. Most of the problems are caused by virrus like corruption or the drug lords. Sure you could blame US hippes for supplying the demand for the drugs, but its not just the US hippy's but the European hippies using south american drugs.

American interference is massive in most south and central american countries and always has been, obviously you've never been to South America.

He is not refering to Legall as "unwashed hordes" but the millions of illegal immigrants. Texas has always been the anti-mexico we won our independence from that country a century ago and the number of illegal immigrants swell across the Rio Grande is causing that raw area to be rubed sore. It is not racist to want to defend your state and country from an invasion by another. Though I do find through your words you hate the US, what would that make you?

As usual you play the old "you hate America" card, how predictable. I made no such statment ,and that is wholly untrue. As I said before, his post made no such distinction between legal, illegal or whether they were immigrants or not. Whether he meant it or not is not the issue. If I had made a similary vague generalisation you would have instantly challenged it.

Mexico has some of the harshest immigration laws in the world of any non communist country. Most of their army is used to prevent ANY immigration into their country from south american countries. Most south american countries also have insanely harsh laws to prevent immigration. Compared to south/central America, we have an open border policy.

Exactly correct, so why doesn't your goverment enforce stricter border controls? Surely one would expect such policies from the right wing republicans currently in office?

funny real funny. The "jobs whites wont do" your right there for the simple fact the money is to low to make a living! Everything else I said is valid Texan culture is sacred to the 21 million Texans already here llegaly wether they be black or mexican or white. The illegals bring mexican culture here and agian dont assmaltie. So you can sit there comfortbaly and take the side of these poor downtrodden souls and you make all better in your mind by saying Im a racist westener when you in fact know nothing of this sutiation.

If the money is too low to make a living, who's fault is that? Are these mexican companies hiring mexicans to do cheap labour in Texas? I doubt it. As usual it's big corporations that don't want to pay a decent wage, looking greedily across the border at a massive cheap labour pool. I know enough of the situation, to come to the conclusion that this is the fault of the administration that is allowing this immigration, and not the immigrants themselves. Isn't this just basic common sense?

People always blame immigrants if their country is experiencing economic problems, or their kids are getting into crime. It's always the same old story of the malign influence of immigrants pushing those decent folks towards a life of crime, and stealing their jobs.

[Soulforged]

In real life, not long ago I had a conversation with a girl from Argentina. As we discussed immigration, to my surprise she suddenly started a rant about illegal immigration into Argentina. In a language that would make SFTS blush, she repeated all the arguments about illegal immigration that people have raised here too. Also, there was a significant degree of racism in it, especially when she spoke about Bolivians.

I guess she was a rich one. In both senses. But you're right a lot of people have irrational and trivial fears, others do so only out of hate. Bolivians and paraguayans are constantly discriminated here, but very little is said in the media about any mayor problem caused by them. They work hard, the build houses, they drive busses, cabs, they clean houses, the put little business. Perhaps it's just me, because I never felt in that way to anyone strange to me, wheter it was his skin, his way of speaking, his alien culture, they always appear the same to me, that's why I cannot put myself in the shoes of those that talk about culture being undermined, I simply don't understand it.

Hey I should put "The hands that built America" while reading and writing this...But even better: "Natives be afraid of foreing influence" - The Gangs of New York, swayed in a big american flag. I just wonder what that influence was?