Quote Originally Posted by bretwalda
[/I]These are very good and true point, however I was refering to still something else. I you produce a crusade marker but you haven't started the crusade, so the marker sits in the producing province AND you lose that province then the effects are the same as the crusade being beaten and eliminated to the last man in foreign land.

Ah, I see what you're saying. I admit I don't think I knew that before. But then, I usually don't leave Crusade markers just sitting around either--at least not in a province that's vulnerable to attack. Under what circumstances were you unforunate enough to fall victim to this?