D-Day: The Lost Evidence

**Alexanderofmacedon** · 04-22-2006, 03:36

I saw a show on D-Day. Man was it a massive battle. Discuss.

**orangat** · 04-22-2006, 03:53

You really need to give more information.

**discovery1** · 04-22-2006, 04:00

This wouldn't have anything to do with the film of the first wave that was lost when someone dropped it in the ocean would it?

**Alexanderofmacedon** · 04-22-2006, 04:02

No, it's a TV show on the History channel, which prompted me to make a thread to post ideas and whatever you want about D-Day.

**Watchman** · 04-22-2006, 04:05

Still probably chump change to the bigger moves on the East Front though.

**Redleg** · 04-22-2006, 04:19

Originally Posted by Watchman

Still probably chump change to the bigger moves on the East Front though.

One must remember that an sea-air invasion is a very difficult operation when facing an armed and prepared position.

Calling it chump change compared to the events of the Eastern Front ignores the overall signifiance to the Russians concerning an invasion of France, the impact of the event on the war, and on history in general.

It was by no means a chump change operation. Several Nations had a significant part of thier combat forces committed to the success of the operation. Would failure on the beaches caused the allies to re-evaluate the necessity to fight the Germans - not at all, but failure on the beaches would of lengthened the war and would of caused futher changes to the map of Europe at the completion of the war.

Finally smaller concurrent operations can often effect the overall success of a bigger operation.

However not enough information about the History Channel show has been provided to discuss what new evidence concerning the operation has been surface for those of us who have not seen the show.

**rotorgun** · 04-22-2006, 04:33

D Day, the Lost Evidence basically presented the aireal footage taken by both the RAF and US Army Air Corps. of the actions on the beaches during the first few hours and days of the operation. The premise of the show was too use this (digitally enhanced I'm sure) photography to better explain what was really going on during key points in the battle. It was an enlightening way to present the story in a graphic way to back up the written accounts. On Omaha beach, for instance, the recon planes were able to catch the brave actions of several of the Destroyer crews who sailed their vessels within one thousand yards to engage the German gin, and fighting positions (Wiederstandsnesten) from point blank range. This was dramatic footage of the action which caught the ships at work. Without their support, there was a good possibility that the stuggling infantry might never have been able to advance. These ships risked being grounded on a sand bar and shelled into oblivion by the German shore batteries. Astounding.

In another segment, the pictures showed how much better organized Sword and Gold beaches were. This was due to the improved visibility which allowed the British forces to hit the beach in much better order. Something must be said for the way the angle of the land prevented these beaches from the effects of the swift channel currents. This was a big reason why the DD tanks floundered on the run in to Omaha and Utah beaches, aside from being launched from WAY to far out. It also showed how the use of the specialized "funnies" armored vehicles made it much easier for the British to overcome their obstacles. One could see the amount of traffic that was already moving inland, even while the Omaha forces were still sorting things out.

The airborne operations at Pegasus Bridge were caught on film, and the American airborne assaults as well. Once again, the experience of the British is evident. Their troops were dropped much better than the Americans, whom were quite scattered. It sometimes amazes me that my American bretheren were able to "pull it out of the hat", so to speak, despite the poor drops. A particularly good set of photos showed the operations of the airborne of both sides during the fight. The bloody attacks made at St. Come Du Mont are one of the well documented events, as well as the taking of the German battery at Brecourt by the Company E, of the 506th Parachute Infantry; the famed Band of Brothers.

I was impressed with the way the information was presented during the show. It was a unique way to view the critical aspects of that day, even though I had seen some of these photos before. I highly recommend watching it.

Rotorgun

**Redleg** · 04-22-2006, 04:37

Thanks Rotorgun

Did you see the one on Pearl Harbor also?

**Alexanderofmacedon** · 04-22-2006, 05:57

Originally Posted by rotorgun

D Day, the Lost Evidence basically presented the aireal footage taken by both the RAF and US Army Air Corps. of the actions on the beaches during the first few hours and days of the operation. The premise of the show was too use this (digitally enhanced I'm sure) photography to better explain what was really going on during key points in the battle. It was an enlightening way to present the story in a graphic way to back up the written accounts. On Omaha beach, for instance, the recon planes were able to catch the brave actions of several of the Destroyer crews who sailed their vessels within one thousand yards to engage the German gin, and fighting positions (Wiederstandsnesten) from point blank range. This was dramatic footage of the action which caught the ships at work. Without their support, there was a good possibility that the stuggling infantry might never have been able to advance. These ships risked being grounded on a sand bar and shelled into oblivion by the German shore batteries. Astounding.

In another segment, the pictures showed how much better organized Sword and Gold beaches were. This was due to the improved visibility which allowed the British forces to hit the beach in much better order. Something must be said for the way the angle of the land prevented these beaches from the effects of the swift channel currents. This was a big reason why the DD tanks floundered on the run in to Omaha and Utah beaches, aside from being launched from WAY to far out. It also showed how the use of the specialized "funnies" armored vehicles made it much easier for the British to overcome their obstacles. One could see the amount of traffic that was already moving inland, even while the Omaha forces were still sorting things out.

The airborne operations at Pegasus Bridge were caught on film, and the American airborne assaults as well. Once again, the experience of the British is evident. Their troops were dropped much better than the Americans, whom were quite scattered. It sometimes amazes me that my American bretheren were able to "pull it out of the hat", so to speak, despite the poor drops. A particularly good set of photos showed the operations of the airborne of both sides during the fight. The bloody attacks made at St. Come Du Mont are one of the well documented events, as well as the taking of the German battery at Brecourt by the Company E, of the 506th Parachute Infantry; the famed Band of Brothers.

I was impressed with the way the information was presented during the show. It was a unique way to view the critical aspects of that day, even though I had seen some of these photos before. I highly recommend watching it.

Rotorgun

Thanks. So you watched it too? It was great, wasn't it?

**Samurai Waki** · 04-22-2006, 09:15

Whats even a little more astounding is that the British Airborne were considered to be a better organized fighting force than American Airborne and yet mucked it up terribly during Operation: Market Garden. Montgomery assumed too much and when information was relayed to the Red Devils they assumed to much.

However the Atlantic Wall at both Juno and Sword Beach were considered to be a bit less heavily defended than Omaha and Utah, and the Royal Marines had already practiced beach landings during the Invasion of Sicily, which gave them a better sense of organization. American Forces had fallen a bit behind, and the Landings at Anzio didn't give the US Military much in terms of experience except from a General's point of view.

However, the US Airborne definantly deserved kudos for pulling it out of the hat during D-Day. A Much less disciplined or a force that used a different form of organization couldn't have pulled it off.

**rotorgun** · 04-22-2006, 14:41

Originally Posted by Redleg

Thanks Rotorgun

Did you see the one on Pearl Harbor also?

No, I'm afraid I haven't been able to watch that one yet. Is it as well presented? I have often wondered just exactly what happened that day.

**Redleg** · 04-22-2006, 15:02

Originally Posted by rotorgun

No, I'm afraid I haven't been able to watch that one yet. Is it as well presented? I have often wondered just exactly what happened that day.

I believe it matches the description that you provided on the D-Day espisode.

**Alexanderofmacedon** · 04-22-2006, 15:24

Originally Posted by Wakizashi

Whats even a little more astounding is that the British Airborne were considered to be a better organized fighting force than American Airborne and yet mucked it up terribly during Operation: Market Garden. Montgomery assumed too much and when information was relayed to the Red Devils they assumed to much.

However the Atlantic Wall at both Juno and Sword Beach were considered to be a bit less heavily defended than Omaha and Utah, and the Royal Marines had already practiced beach landings during the Invasion of Sicily, which gave them a better sense of organization. American Forces had fallen a bit behind, and the Landings at Anzio didn't give the US Military much in terms of experience except from a General's point of view.

However, the US Airborne definantly deserved kudos for pulling it out of the hat during D-Day. A Much less disciplined or a force that used a different form of organization couldn't have pulled it off.

The British brought up "Didi's", which were tanks that could drive through water. They had 22 and it made it very easy for Sword to be taken.

The show stated that the allied forces landing on the beaches thought it would be a walk on the beach. They thought all opposition was destroyed by the numerous bombers, but I think the bombers dropped bombs too far inland.

**Aenlic** · 04-23-2006, 00:43

One segment of the show I found fascinating was the part about the guy from the 101st airborne finding the maps on the dead German officer. They were detailed maps of the entire beach fortifications, including mg nest positions and barbed wire and mine fields. Amazing stuff. This guy, a Lt. I think, realized what he'd found and rushed it back to brigade. It then made it's way to the beach command and probably saved thousands of lives.

And imagine if the nasty wave conditions at Omaha and Utah had been better and the DD tanks there hadn't all floundered and sank. Those tanks made a huge difference at Sword. It was just horrid luck that they couldn't be used at Omaha and Utah.