Kleruchois

[MaximianusBR]

I think the ptolemaioi Phalankx and galatian Kleruchoi are really overpowered...
Wat you guys think?

[Mujalumbo]

Nah, nothing wrong with the stock Pezhetairoi. The Klerochoi Agemata, the 120-man super phalanx, might be a little overpowered.

I haven't had much issue with the Galatian Kleruchoi. Sure, they're tough, but they break and flee like any other unit. Just keep the flanks of your phalanxes covered, and you should be fine.

[Volume II]

I've been fighting the Ptolemies as Epeiros for a while now, and until I knocked out all of their huge cities, all they sent at me were Kleruchoi agemeta armies, along with the galatians. his didn't strike me as terribly realistic, seeing as those guys were better than my gold chevron upgraded taxeis phalangatai and my pexhetorai.

[Simmons]

I've been fighting the Ptolemies as Epeiros for a while now, and until I knocked out all of their huge cities, all they sent at me were Kleruchoi agemeta armies, along with the galatians. his didn't strike me as terribly realistic, seeing as those guys were better than my gold chevron upgraded taxeis phalangatai and my pexhetorai.

What difficulty level? I've have no huge problems with them.

[Avicenna]

Taxeis are just citizen militia in the end.. upgrading your army to include advanced units is always better than using throwaway units (citizen levies, usually) that have more experience.

[stufer]

Yes I notice that every time I send spies to Egypt after the first 20 years or so, they have armies that only consist Klereuch Infantry - all with multiple chevrons. I haven't got round to fighting against them yet so I don't know how tough they are. They do look tough though.

Still, I don't think its easy (maybe not even possible) to make them train balanced and realistic armies. I hear that in 1.5 they are more balanced. We shall see.

[Mujalumbo]

Er, yeah, post-start Ptolemaic armies are always full of Galatian Kleruchoi and Kleruchoi Agemata. But this problem is hardly unique to the Ptolemaioi. I've found Roman armies full of early Triarii, Cartaginian armies are piles of Elite African Pikemen and Iberian Assault Infantry... Even Gallic armies; as soon as the Gallic tribes can train Gesatae, they'll throw piles and piles of them at you.

The units themselves aren't overpowered, it's just the AI's tendancy to train nothing but elite-level troops as soon as it can.

I dunno what to suggest. Would making them an order or two of a magnitude make the AI recruit them less?

[Kralizec]

The AI has tons of problems, but the Klerochoi Agemata are overpowered. Personally I've reduced their numbers to 100 (on large unit size), as a nice middle ground.

[MaximianusBR]

They are VERY OVERPOWERED!!!!!!!My polibian legion are suffering!!!they rarely run, some of then have full experience chevrons!!!!It gives then 36 attack points!!!!!Im playng in Hard/Hard and have experience in the game, i'm winning but are very dificullt!!

I surrounded then with two pzetharoi,1 thureopodoi,1 Principes, and after they exhaust I charge with a 2 general cavalry, 2 Numidian placeholder, and 4iberian/cartaginian cavalry, all that in my town center!

Result: they destroyed the 2 numidian cavalry, the thurepodoi, the principes, all iberian Cavs., almost all general unit, 1 pezhetaroi...I won but lost all that units for just one phalanx kleruchoi!!!!

The only way to resolve this disparity of power is desactive the last 6 chevron experience levels i think!

[Mujalumbo]

The AI gets bonuses in combat on H and VH battle difficulty. Anyway, you should be glad you're getting a challenge on Hard battle difficulty! When I was playing as the Aedui on H/H, an Averni army of inferior troops routed my Mala Gaeroas and Botroas... after they were exhausted from marching across the map, walking through a hail of javelins and attacking my army uphill.

I dunno what to tell you, I've played on M battle difficulty, and found them the Keruchoi Agemata tough nuts to crack, but not so obscene.

[paullus]

Its funny how you can go nuts over the effectiveness of a unit. First it was the gaesatae, then the polybian triarii, then the hetairoi, now the klerouchoi units. With all of them, it seems that if you play them a few times, they lose their mystique, keep your healthy respect, and get slaughtered.

However, changes in unit sizes are sometimes in order (eg, Gaesatae, possibly Klerouchoi Agemata). And I would love it if the AI made more diverse armies.

Here's hoping for 1.5 to work a bunch of miracles I didn't know about!

[Avicenna]

Hetairoi? They're easy enough to deal with when I use the Greeks. They rip my general apart if he engages them, yes, but if that happens I don't let them: I just send in a phalanx unit.

Mujalumbo: on hard, the already incredibly powerful gaesatae will be ludicrously hard. Just play medium battles, where it's balanced out. It's the EB recommended settings: VH/M

[MaximianusBR]

I'm allied with aedui and destroyed Arverni, so i don't experimented the terryble Gaetasae yet!!

I'm not having any problems to win batles in hard if the enemy don't have kleruchois, I just use good generals to take off the AI advantage, and a lot of flank moviments!

[Simmons]

Hetairoi? They're easy enough to deal with when I use the Greeks. They rip my general apart if he engages them, yes, but if that happens I don't let them: I just send in a phalanx unit.

Thats what its like now it was not so in the first public build.

[QwertyMIDX]

I'll probably reduce the number of men in Klerouchoi Agema unit in the next build.

[MaximianusBR]

to 120, 160?? Will be good if this "problem" be resolved!