Callete! Este es nuestro pais y nuestro himno nacional ahora!!!

[Don Corleone]

For the non-Spanish speakers among you, it would appear that latino immigrants, no longer simply content to speak in Spanish, have made a new national anthem, in Spanish, 'based closely' on the Star Spangled Banner. Apparently, some English language lines will be inserted in a version due out in June, scolding people who support immigration controls.

So, to those of you who say 'they're not trying to take over'... let me ask you... when a forgeign invader starts altering your national symbols, and altering the are they still really 'just trying to get along?'

It's OUR National Anthem now!!!

The initial version of "Nuestro Himno," or "Our Anthem," comes out Friday and uses lyrics based closely on the English-language original, said Kidron, who heads the record label Urban Box Office.

If they were translating the Star Spangled Banner into Spanish directly, I wouldn't have anywhere near the problem with this. But who gave them the right to alter it? We're supposed to just lay down and let Mexico dictate not only our immigration policies, but now also our national anthem is dictated to us by Mexcicans!

[Sjakihata]

I find it so funny when americans speaks of immigration in the tone that you do, like 'someone' is trying to take over your land/symbols/etc. A quick reminder of your countrys history makes any criticism of immigration redundant, I should say.

[Don Corleone]

Tell you what, Sjakihata... instead of sounding like a smug hypocrite, let's suggest something... Take a million Turks into Sweden, have them dictate the right to bring as many additional Turks into Sweden as they care to, and have them change your national anthem to Turkish, then we'll talk. Until then, you're just talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Edit: No offense to Left Eye Nine or any other Turkish members of the board. I was trying to pick a nationality that in fact DOES frequently immigrate to Scandanavia.

[Husar]

Tell you what, Sjakihata... instead of sounding like a smug hypocrite, let's suggest something... Take a million Turks into Sweden, have them dictate the right to bring as many additional Turks into Sweden as they care to, and have them change your national anthem to Turkish, then we'll talk. Until then, you're just talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Edit: No offense to Left Eye Nine or any other Turkish members of the board. I was trying to pick a nationality that in fact DOES frequently immigrate to Scandanavia.

Sjakihata is Danish, IIRC...

What he says sounds right, but when the Europeans migrated to America the "Indians" also tried to defend their country. Now we have the Mexicans migrate to the US and the natives try to defend their country, let´s see who wins this time...

[Don Corleone]

Fair enough, my apologies to Swedes everywhere for the slur. Just kidding Sjakihata. But my point is still valid... I find it incredibly disingenous for a Dane, who comes from the European country with quite possibly the strictest immigration controls of all, to tell Americans that they're wrong for not wanting to completely abandon any sort of immigration controls.

Talk about double standards... We in Denmark are free to lock down as tight as we like, but you Americans must allow anyone that wants to come.... and then pay for their schooling, pay for their hospitals, pay their bills for them when they get unemployed, pay their kids welfare.........yeah, sure seems fair to me.

[Don Corleone]

The producer who arranged it is some Limey after a fast buck. But the singers are all Latinos. They have altered the words to express their political message, and they intend to play it as their anthem during the 'Day without Immigrants' on Monday. Laugh all you want Tribesman, I've been to Ireland, and you're not exactly blazing a path to enlightened immigration there, either.

[Tribesman]

Hmmmmm....Are you getting your knickers in a twist over nothing ?
It seems that it certainly is a big nothing Don , or could you explain.....to tell Americans that they're wrong for not wanting to completely abandon any sort of immigration controls.

...where are there any proposals at all that have been put forward to completely abandon any sort of immigration controls ?
Are they in your imagination , like the hispanisc brit who is trying to take over your country ?

[Sjakihata]

Talk about double standards... We in Denmark are free to lock down as tight as we like, but you Americans must allow anyone that wants to come.... and then pay for their schooling, pay for their hospitals, pay their bills for them when they get unemployed, pay their kids welfare.........yeah, sure seems fair to me.

Oh, don't make the common mistake to associate the current danish government to the danish people, and inparticular me. I, for the record (since I have to defend myself), have been to 1000+ rallies, demos, conferences and God (probably dont) knows what, I am completely against the current danish line, after all, im an internationalist (building bridges from coast to coast, you know).

[Proletariat]

And then if a Turk rapes some Dane it should take nothing but a quick reminder of your country's Viking history for you to be silenced and have everything put back in to perspective.

[Proletariat]

This is hilarious. Why do we ever discuss any friction between nations? After all, if you just use history, everything just evens itself out and whoever's getting screwed prolly deserves it when you look back at the last few hundred years, right?

[Sjakihata]

And then if a Turk rapes some Dane it should take nothing but a quick reminder of your country's Viking history for you to be silenced and have everything put back in to perspective.

Im clueless to your intentions? What is your point? That vikings generally were raping more than the average army/militia at that given age? If so I think it is you who need a reminder of viking history.

Anyway, Im not critizing your history, Im actually quite proud of most of it. Im just highlighting history and that america would not have been what it currently is (for better or worse) and that the multiethnic society has brought prosperity to america, isnt curry wonderful?

[English assassin]

British music producer Adam Kidron says that when he came up with the idea of a Spanish-language version of the U.S. national anthem, he saw it as an ode to the millions of immigrants seeking a better life

Its not the immigrants you need to worry about DC, its us snaggle toothed tea drinkers.

[Sjakihata]

Tell you what, Sjakihata... instead of sounding like a smug hypocrite, let's suggest something... Take a million Turks into Sweden, have them dictate the right to bring as many additional Turks into Sweden as they care to, and have them change your national anthem to Turkish, then we'll talk. Until then, you're just talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Yes, let's do that. That would probably annoy our neighbours very much, and no Denmark is not the capital of Sweden

What I mean is simply that the history of america has been forged by immigration, what gives you the right to stop it?

[KukriKhan]

US national anthem's murky background illuminated:
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_011.html

seems the lyrics and music have been 're-mixed' for quite some time.

[Sjakihata]

Talking about the American national anthem. Now I havent heard the spanish version nor have I bothered to read any of the links, but if an american can rape the anthem, like they did at the Superbowl, why cant a spaniard, mexican or a brit?

[Don Corleone]

That's not what I got out of your article Kukri:

In those times, folks often recycled good older melodies to use with new lyrics (for example, Maryland's state song uses the melody from "O Tannenbaum"), so no one minded that Scott Key used "To Anacreon in Heaven." Of course recycling melodies still happens today. Consider "The Barney Song," which uses the melody for "This Old Man." OK, so maybe you're not watching Barney so much anymore. How about Weird Al Yankovic's treasure chest of songs including "Smells like Nirvana" or "It's all about the Pentiums"? But even Weird Al knows, to recycle melodies today requires the use of finely-honed musical skills and the services of an excellent lawyer.

Key's lyrics circulated as a handbill, then were published in a Baltimore newspaper on Sept. 20, 1814. The song was designated the U.S. national anthem by executive order of President Woodrow Wilson in 1916. Following a 20-year effort during which more than 40 bills were introduced to Congress, the order was finally confirmed by Congress in 1931.

In other words, the melody for the Star Spangled Banner was borrowed from another, a fairly common practice in the 18th & 19th century. The lyrics, however, are as Key wrote them. Hmm....

And before anyone brings up "My Country T'is of Thee" versus "God Save the Queen", you have to remember, we were at war with Britain when it was written... which only proves my point. Co-opting our national anthem and changing the lyrics to suit their agenda proves that Latino immigrants are not interested in becoming American.

[Tribesman]

What do you think these protests are all about Tribesman?
Well lets see , there was the new legislation that was passed ,then the new legislation that was not passed , the there were the amendments that were passed , and the amendments that were not passed , then there was the proposals for new legislation that is going forward and the proposals for legislation that were blocked . Then there is the costing and effectivness of it all ,then there are the implications of it all .

What do you think they are about ?
They're talking about enforcing the current limits on the books.
errr.....nope they are talking about many things Don , it is quite a complex subject , but one thing you will find that they are not talking about , no matter how much your state of outrage would like to pretend that they are talking about is ....to tell Americans that they're wrong for not wanting to completely abandon any sort of immigration controls.


Laugh all you want Tribesman, I've been to Ireland, and you're not exactly blazing a path to enlightened immigration there, either.
Now that is really funny Don , it wasn't very long ago in yet another immigration topic that you told me that Ireland didn't have an immigrant problem .
And guess what , the government bought in some really serious anti-illegal immigrant legislation , changed the constitution and changed the laws on citizenship . 'cos hey they are really serious about this . And the end result is complete bollox , scaring the population to get uneccesary measures passed, when all the had to do was enforce the existing laws

And do you have any other tone then 'know-it-all'?
Well Don , its like this , when you post something that actually deals withthe facts on the topic rather than a rant about British hispanics taking over the country by producing a protest song , or people making America abandon all immigration controls , them maybe , just maybe I won't write that I know you are talking rubbish

[Don Corleone]

What do you think these protests are all about Tribesman?
Well lets see , there was the new legislation that was passed ,then the new legislation that was not passed , the there were the amendments that were passed , and the amendments that were not passed , then there was the proposals for new legislation that is going forward and the proposals for legislation that were blocked . Then there is the costing and effectivness of it all ,then there are the implications of it all .

Hmm, could you be any less specific? Talk about smoke and mirrors... The current proposals that the immigrants themselves are protesting are: 1) making illegal immigrants criminal 2) actually attaching some penalties to the act of crosssing the border without paperwork. If you've something more concrete to add from your wealth of experiences marching through the streets of LA, by all means, we'd love to hear it chief.

They're talking about enforcing the current limits on the books. errr.....nope they are talking about many things Don , it is quite a complex subject , but one thing you will find that they are not talking about , no matter how much your state of outrage would like to pretend that they are talking about is ....to tell Americans that they're wrong for not wanting to completely abandon any sort of immigration controls.

Yes, they are. Read the signs they're carrying. They want an open border. Any immigration control is intolerable in the minds of the protesters. Where are you getting your information from?

Laugh all you want Tribesman, I've been to Ireland, and you're not exactly blazing a path to enlightened immigration there, either.
Now that is really funny Don , it wasn't very long ago in yet another immigration topic that you told me that Ireland didn't have an immigrant problem .
And guess what , the government bought in some really serious anti-illegal immigrant legislation , changed the constitution and changed the laws on citizenship . 'cos hey they are really serious about this . And the end result is complete bollox , scaring the population to get uneccesary measures passed, when all the had to do was enforce the existing laws

My point is, and was, you don't have anywhere near the immigration to your country that we do. You don't know the first thing about it. Yes, as a token to your EU moneymen, you've started some guest-worker visas for eastern Europeans, and funny thing about that... you're not the enlightened souls you claim to be. When we went out to dinner, the Irish folks were pretty nasty to the poor Czech girl who waited on us in Killarney. She said she was miserable and if it wasn't for the money, she'd go home immediately, because Irish people treat what few immigrants they have abominably. Hello pot, this is kettle, you're black

And do you have any other tone then 'know-it-all'?
Well Don , its like this , when you post something that actually deals withthe facts on the topic rather than a rant about British hispanics taking over the country by producing a protest song , or people making America abandon all immigration controls , them maybe , just maybe I won't write that I know you are talking rubbish

Oh, this wasn't just about this thread... I don't think I've ever seen you be anything but smug, condescending and dismissive. I'm wondering out loud if anybody, anywhere ever has.

[Tribesman]

it would appear that latino immigrants, no longer simply content to speak in Spanish, have made a new national anthem, in Spanish, 'based closely' on the Star Spangled Banner.

Don did you read the article you posted as your above statement doesn't fit the article at all ......British music producer Adam Kidron says that when he came up with the idea of a Spanish-language version of the U.S. national anthem, he saw it as an ode to the millions of immigrants seeking a better life. .....
So, to those of you who say 'they're not trying to take over'... let me ask you... when a forgeign invader starts altering your national symbols, and altering the are they still really 'just trying to get along?'

Oh I see so a legal English immigrant is now suddenly hispanic and is trying to take over your country by rewritting an adaptation of a British tune ....After all, he notes, American immigrants borrowed the melody of the "Star Spangled Banner" from an English drinking song.
....
Are you getting your knickers in a twist over nothing ?

[BigTex]

For the non-Spanish speakers among you, it would appear that latino immigrants, no longer simply content to speak in Spanish, have made a new national anthem, in Spanish, 'based closely' on the Star Spangled Banner. Apparently, some English language lines will be inserted in a version due out in June, scolding people who support immigration controls.

So, to those of you who say 'they're not trying to take over'... let me ask you... when a forgeign invader starts altering your national symbols, and altering the are they still really 'just trying to get along?'

It's OUR National Anthem now!!!

If they were translating the Star Spangled Banner into Spanish directly, I wouldn't have anywhere near the problem with this. But who gave them the right to alter it? We're supposed to just lay down and let Mexico dictate not only our immigration policies, but now also our national anthem is dictated to us by Mexcicans!

First of all a spanish version of our national anthem is not the anthem anymore. It is simply a spanish version of the Star Spangled Banner, with loads of political messages in it. Congress ordered in the 1830's the official national anthem, and it was in english. This is a complete mockery of our heritage, not only are the changing the Star Spangled Banner, but their throwing in their own message in it, its disgusting. The english composer should be ashamed, and don't tell me there wouldn't be an uproar if "god save the queen" was changed to french.

We are a country of immigrants, but it is not the immigrant that has made the USA. It is the meshing of all these immigrants, and their cultures to forge a new country a new idea a new culture the USA. These mostly illegal immigrants from mexico do not want to mesh, they want us to change for them, that is un-American.

[solypsist]

i, for one, welcome our new mexican overlords

[Byzantine Prince]

So, to those of you who say 'they're not trying to take over'... let me ask you... when a forgeign invader starts altering your national symbols, and altering the are they still really 'just trying to get along?'

You might think too highly of your national symbols. They mean nothing, you should stand by your ideals instead of your symbols, whose meanings can be different with ever person or organization you ask.

Americans must allow anyone that wants to come.... and then pay for their schooling, pay for their hospitals, pay their bills for them when they get unemployed, pay their kids welfare.........yeah, sure seems fair to me.

You must be joking me. Take half that money you spend in Iraq on pretty no purpose and you have the best education, economic investment(for jobs), and health care in the world. America is pretty much empty in the enterior anyways, it doesn't cost you anything to spread out more and take advantage of all the wealth with cheap labour from Mexico. I don't see how this is different from Europeans and Africans coming to America, "legally".

And don't give me the "legal" crap. It's like saying if you want to become a citizen of Switzerland, all you have to do is immigrate there legally. We both know how impossible that is.

It is the meshing of all these immigrants, and their cultures to forge a new country a new idea a new culture the USA. These mostly illegal immigrants from mexico do not want to mesh, they want us to change for them, that is un-American.

The Mexicans need time to assimilate. You can't expect wetbacks who got there last week to speak english and like Rock music and drink coca cola, or whatever else "American Culture" entails. Or need I remind you that Mexico is in America as well.

[Soulforged]

For the non-Spanish speakers among you, it would appear that latino immigrants, no longer simply content to speak in Spanish, have made a new national anthem, in Spanish, 'based closely' on the Star Spangled Banner. Apparently, some English language lines will be inserted in a version due out in June, scolding people who support immigration controls.

So, to those of you who say 'they're not trying to take over'... let me ask you... when a forgeign invader starts altering your national symbols, and altering the are they still really 'just trying to get along?'

Actually it's "¡¡Callate!! ¡¡¡Este es nuestro país y nuestro himno nacional ahora!!!". I'm not a big lover of traditions and rules. Let's just say that if your traditions, and with that your entire culture, and even a mixture of languages, have to change, they'll change. It will become richer, actually, not poorer. I don't know what's the fear of loosing traditions, it seems so irrational...Like a judge said one time "They're trying to take faith out of our lives..." what the hell does that means? The american culture changed over the centuries as much as any other in the world, you shouldn't be afraid of it, you should be afraid of staying on the past. Besides your anthem is not gonna change, it will be translated, and if you like, it will penetrate even more hearts. What's your problem with that?

I mean I can understand the problem with the illegal immigrants messing up your economy, but legal immigrants "messing up" your culture?

[scooter_the_shooter]

They do mess up our culture, where do you think alot of our drugs are smuggled in from....mexico (how shocking ) by a latino gang called MS13, many of them are illegals.

[Don Corleone]

Soulforged, I have a deep respect and admiration for Latin American culture. Yes, the United States has been blessed to embrace it in the past, and will be blessed to continue to embrace it. Ustedes tienen mucho a darnos, y estaremos muy estupido a no aceptarlo. No se como a decir 'share' en espanol, but I meant share with us, not give to us.

But we have much here of value already. To show up and demand that the culture and language change to match that of the country you just left, and all existing other cultures be damned.... I'm sorry, I don't have much respect for that attitude.

The translation wasn't a direct translation. They changed some lines to change the meaning to suit their agenda.

[Soulforged]

Soulforged, I have a deep respect and admiration for Latin American culture. Yes, the United States has been blessed to embrace it in the past, and will be blessed to continue to embrace it. Ustedes tienen mucho a darnos, y estaremos muy estupido a no aceptarlo. No se como a decir 'share' en espanol, but I meant share with us, not give to us.

Se dice compartir. The attitude of this people also scares me in some way, they appear to be fundamentalist of some kind. However I still don't see any more than an irrational fear.

But we have much here of value already. To show up and demand that the culture and language change to match that of the country you just left, and all existing other cultures be damned.... I'm sorry, I don't have much respect for that attitude.

I still don't understand where's the dramatic change that will force you to adapt a certain culture. Maybe you should learn spanish to adapt yourself to an inevitable change, but all other things can and will be shared. Your culture, again, will change even if you don't like it, legal immigrants can still run free to your lands and create any changes to your culture, as they please. Culture will not change by a single movement, a law, or anything of that kind, it will be long and subtle process of change. English became the most important language in the world, not only because it sounds cool, it's because you need it to do business, and I don't see any signs of that changing, wheter it's on the USA or outside.

The translation wasn't a direct translation. They changed some lines to change the meaning to suit their agenda.

First, you cannot make a direct translation because it will have no rhyme. Second, even so, why monopolize the culture? Why a group of people should have the right to dictate to another group how they should dress, what they should sign, what's the anthem that they should respect? Perhaps it's time to change that attitude. I really don't care if my anthem changes, if we adapt the american culture and we stop drinking "mate", if it happens it will happen. I don't believe I've the power of the right to keep it like it was, to mantain traditions, to save the past from the future. And again, this is a question that goes beyond illegal immigration, your culture will change even if the immigrants are completely legal, is simply an human process, and we're ruled by humans, not by God, not by traditions, not by texts... I understand that some people will be incredibly reluctant to accept a change of their national anthem, is something that we learn to love, but still there's nothing more than an irrational fear in that. I had recently read an article of hispanoamericans in the USA. It appers that over the long decades of immigration, the hispanos have learned to take something from american culture that they find particulary appealing to them, that's consumism, patriotism, a healthy democratic attitude (learn to defend your rights, campaing to change something through vote,etc), between other things, but they always keep something from their culture, and that eventually provoques a change in their neighborgs, this will continue to spread.

Canada's had a French and English version of the national anthem for a while now, and, well, the world didn't end.

Exactly. Canada is one the best known proof that mixtures of languages does not means the end of the world. The people form a country, not traditions, not laws, not state...

Surely that's because both English and French are official languages in Canada? Although the USA has no official language as such, de facto English is the (only) official language.

Surely you'll agree that if two official languages don't mean chaos, then monopolizing languages is not a very healthy or reasonable attitude from the government. I still want to know how many hispanos there's on the USA, that's the single most important thing to determine a lot of things in this thread.
EDIT: "Hispanics of any race 14.1%, or 41.3 million." It doesn't seem too big. And still it provoques changes. Seriously, I don't think that this movements will do any more noise than what they're doing now, perhaps when the hispanic popullation reaches %40, then we'll be talking. Of course in this census the illegal immigrants are not included.

[The Wizard]

I am undecided on the matter, I must say... as far as I am concerned someone doesn't have to learn the official tongue of the state he emigrated to, as long as he is prepared to be very limited in his ability to partake in public life.

However -- is this public or private life? I don't know yet...

[Crazed Rabbit]

Except, they demand government services in spanish.

Crazed Rabbit

[BigTex]

Except, they demand government services in spanish.

Crazed Rabbit

They also demand that the local businesses speak spanish also. They've sue'd because state forms in Texas were not printed in spanish, and might I remind you English is the official language of the Great State of Texas. Now their demanding that they receive amnesty. And todays theres this wonderful protest called the "day without the criminals", nothing like millions of these idiots walking out on all those jobs they've come here for. Apparently they think that congress will help those they don't represent.

I sure hope my faith in my countries laws are restored and patty wagons start showing up at these "protests". The jobs almost done for Ice and the local government, all they have to do is round them into cars and move them back to mexico.

[Soulforged]

Except, they demand government services in spanish.

At this point you've two courses of action, deportation or assimilation, giving up to their demands. However I don't think that the first is reasonable. The second is reasonable to a certain point, what you say they are demanding is too much, since the hispanic popullation doesn't pass from %20 of the total. Ok, even I would agree that they've crossed a certain sane limit.