Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones

[frogbeastegg]

Anyone got it? I remember there was a small following of POP devotees back when Sands was new, and again when Warrior Within came out. The general verdict of those players matched my own: Sands = great, WW = gah! So glad I heard enough about WW to rent it instead of buying, as was my original instinct.

The new one is supposed to be a return to what made Sands great with the few good bits of WW added for good measure, but without nasty rock music, blood (from creatures made entirely of sand ... ), barely clad jumbo-assets women, grautious swearing and all that 'I'm 12 and pretending to be mature' nonsense.

[lancelot]

So, to clarify there is no-

-barely clad jumbo-assets women, grautious swearing and all that 'I'm 12 and pretending to be mature' nonsense.

Well, thats a letdown...

[Lehesu]

I actually enjoyed WW. The puzzle design was simply much more advanced than the Sands of Time, not to mention the combat. I have TTT in my possession, but am not playing it as I am rather booked on games. I purchase them when the prices go low, often times before I have finished my latest acquisition. Real life and a job also inhibit playing time. But the Prince is definently in the queue.

[Kraxis]

My GF's youngest brother is an absolute fan of it, bought it and completed it in less than two days, not because it is short, but because he was insane about it, and a good PS2 player. After four days he had completed it on Hard as well.

I have played it some... And it is very much a return to the old game (style and narration), but the persons look a bit different, and sadly there is no longer any chopping enemies apart, they all die pretty much the same way regardless of combos (generally slit throats, even if you do a scissorcut at the abdomen).

But it also has new ways of killing, those sneaky kills can be quite interesting and sometimes long and somewhat hard (no frantic buttonpushing with them, timing is everything).

Does it compare to Sands? I don't know, I guess I will leave that up to true fans.

[frogbeastegg]

It's a rather terrible thing to have to admit, I know, but I only played WW for about an hour. I couldn't stand any more. I tried, I really did. I even started the game twice, making it two different play sessions. I liked all the other POP games, even the rather bashed POP3D, but I couldn't stand WW. I have never felt so completely ... out of place in a game before. I felt like the only frog at a hedgehog party.

I loved the atmosphere and story of Sands, and the platforming and puzzles. The combat was always the part which held least interest for me, for all that I am a bit of a sword fighting nut. I liked the little things, such as the way the Prince became increasingly threadbare as time passed.

Short games I don't mind. I have never understood the insistance that a game be at least 30 hours long, or more. It should be as long as it needs to be, even if that is just 5 hours. In many ways short is good; I have a job and other things to do, and not much time for games. It has been months since I even turned on one of my consoles.

[Fragony]

WW is pretty good, it just lacked that magical vibe that the Sands of time had. Combat was a lot more fun, the gore was a bit out of place but I don't really mind, fun game. I heard the Two Thrones is more like the first, definatily going to buy it.

[frogbeastegg]

:sighs, and resigns herself to renting both TTT and WW tomorrow: If I like then I'll buy, and play through the entire trilogy in order ... or such is the plan, time permitting. WW gets 3 hours. If I'm still having to force myself to play after that then it gets dropped and for good.

It's not like I have a real problem with the typical jumbo asset women that appear in games; if I did then I'd have virtually no games to play at all, because they are literally everywhere. It's the fact Sands had Farah, who was a) actually human, not some kind of bio-engineered boob machine, and b) interesting, while WW had the thing wearing tiny strips of black leather who shrieked "Oh, that feels so good!" (or similar) as you hacked her up with a large sword ...

[Lehesu]

Ummm....yeah. About the black leather. She is no longer a real big deal in the storyline once you kill her. And besides, the storyline is very well done. Becoming the sa--wr---- and seeing the storyline from a different viewpoint was very cool, added that crazy *time has no meaning any more* effect.

[Geoffrey S]

Yup, she plays a very minor part. Another large-sized young women does play a larger role, but she is far more interesting as the story develops, carrying a similar burden to the Prince.

[Kraxis]

If you look at the Prince in TTT you will see how he has become almost horribly scarred with all the adventures he has seen. That is good...

Also this time he has to accept that he can't just keep backtracking when things go wrong. A nice growing up aspect...

[frogbeastegg]

Rented.

TTT is nice; I'll buy it. Feels a lot like Sands. The stealth kills are nice; I like the way they allow you to avoid combat. Funny; I used to love the fighting in the original POp and POP2, but never much in any of the three modern games.

WW ... er, I'll try it later.

[frogbeastegg]

And now a little of WW has been played. Er ... hmm. It's about as I remember it: absolutely terrible music (now all but muted; huzzah!), muffled and almost inaudible speech and SFX which remain muffled and hard to hear even when you treble the volume on your TV (though to be fair this is a problem with the whole series), the loss of the likeable prince and atmosphere from Sands, a camera which is seldom where I want/need it, and stupid combat controls which keep on getting me hit or killed because the prince insists on jumping all over the shop no matter which buttons I hit. And whenever I want him to jump in combat he always does the wrong one. Usually sending me off a cliff. Even when I follow the tutorial combat instructions it doesn't do anything remotely useful for the situation, for example that shadowy-thing mini boss at the start of the castle: it tells me press [whatever], and I know I need to jump over it and hit it in the back. So I hit what it tells me, and princy-boy vaults sideways and/or backwards, well away from the enemy and certainly in no way behind it. And there is a dirty great chasms in the room you’re fighting in. Princy-boy seems to love that chasm. Sands might have had limited combat, but at least the small number of moves meant you always managed to do exactly what you wanted to.

I know it’s been months since I last played anything on a console, but I didn’t have these camera and control problems with TTT.

I have got further than I did before. I'm in the past now, 1 save point in after the one that's next to the portal thingy which brings you there. The traps and so on are beginning to appear, so hopefully it will pick up. I can’t say that I’m enjoying it, unlike the other two POPs; I liked them both from the start.

[Lehesu]

Press on, my amphibian friend! The environment puzzles in WW are pretty good, and the backtracking really gives the environment a sense of permaneance, rather than some trivial part of a level to be played and then never seen again.

[frogbeastegg]

Thanks to today being a bit of a short day, I was able to play a little before I left for work. It's getting better. I'm now several save points into the past, just at the bit with the large floor of spikes combined with spiked logs rolling down the walls. Getting through there promises to be fun ... I also mildly enjoyed the section before that, featuring traps and platforming with few enemies.

It's improved enough that I'll buy it. It's not even £10 any more. So I'll stop playing this one, go back and re-play Sands, then WW, then finally TTT. That should only take ... oh, maybe 3 months, given the amount of time I've got left over for games these days, and I'm trying to play civ 4 as well.

[Geoffrey S]

Glad you're enjoying it a bit more. Strange about the sound though, in SoT I could barely hear the voices, but in WW it's perfectly audible.

[jeffreyLebowski]

i'm currently playing through warrior within before i tackle the final installment. i can definetely understand why people would dislike the art style and atmosphere of WW, but in my opinion, the puzzle/level design of WW is FAR superior to the original. SOT basically pointed you to exactly what you needed to do in every area... and strung those areas together in a linear fashion. WW has some pretty clever puzzles, requires you do go all over the island, backtrack, and i like that it's not so blatant in showing you the solution to rooms. they give you an area, and it's up to you to figure it out.

the plot has been somewhat interesting as well, especially now that they've revealed who the empress is and what her motivation is. i'm looking forward to the two thrones however, as the level design of WW combined with the bright art style of SOT should be quite impressive.

[The Wizard]

While I've only played WW, I must say I suspect that going back and playing Sands after WW would not be a good idea. Why? I think it would be too easy. Certainly the combat would be a lot easier, but from what I've heard the environmental puzzles in Sands are a lot easier than those of WW.

Besides, I liked WW. Only reason why I'd go back and play Sands would be for the story, but looking at WW that isn't all that much, considering how unclear the situation is sometimes. I think the halfway point between the two -- Two Thrones -- is a better choice.

[orangat]

A little OT but how does WW and TTT stack up to SOT?

I've played only SOT and found it ok. It really sucked in the beginning at the first early big battle was very difficult (for myself) and that battle was really the highpoint of the game action-wise. Enemies didnt get any tougher beyond that first battle and all the skills learnt to get past that point was sufficient to coast through the rest.

Also the pc version had problems with camera angles and it caused quite a bit of pain - eg. an unseen enemy just off to the side getting ready to do a big swing.

[Geoffrey S]

I loved SoT when I first played it, particularly the fantastic endgame. WW I enjoyed even more at the time and it was arguably the more ambitious game, but it tended to involve too much backtracking; some excellent plot moments and the desperate Prince more than made up for that though. TT looks beautiful and contains some of the best moments of the series, but also some inexplicable gameplay mechanics; a lack of sands, late gaining of rewind, the frustration of the Dark Prince slowly losing sands and constantly dying because I lost five seconds somewhere along the line... the ending could have tied in with WW far better too. But the best moments are certainly better than the predecessors.

Fairly recently I've played SoT again, expecting it to be underwhelming after its sequels. This was definitely not the case. The lovely presentation and the fantastic style and developing lovestory made it a joy to play again, with simpler mechanics barely an issue; indeed, a case could be made for minimal moves. So definitely give it a try, if only for the most endearing story and characters you'll see for some time.

But I'd say play them all. An excellent series which stands out as having provided more solid entertainment than many other games I've played.

Orangat, the later games become more combat-oriented, particularly Warrior Within; that one became too easy though due to some very cheap moves. TT strikes a decent balance, but has some other offputting faults I already mentioned. Still, I found both enjoyable if only for the presentation and the ongoing story and development of the Prince, particularly TT.

[orangat]

...............
Orangat, the later games become more combat-oriented, particularly Warrior Within; that one became too easy though due to some very cheap moves. TT strikes a decent balance, but has some other offputting faults I already mentioned. Still, I found both enjoyable if only for the presentation and the ongoing story and development of the Prince, particularly TT.

Cheap moves I don't mind since all one has to do is avoid using them. In the same way I can never understand how people derive any real enjoyment playing VH but use cheap moves to exploit ai flaws.

I don't like the circus portions which involve a timer since I never do well at them. Ubisoft probably thought that the game would enjoy more sucess if it broadened into the hack and slash genre.

Is WW/TTT more forgiving at the jumping parts?

[The Wizard]

Is WW/TTT more forgiving at the jumping parts?

If anything, the environmental puzzles get harder as the series progresses. Sometimes the darkness and strange camera angles in WW can be a real pain in the ass, but it doesn't take that long before you figure out the solution -- especially if you've gotten into the game and feel a bit more experienced.