Damn Oblivion to HELL!!!

[Steppe Merc]

I don't mind the leveling, but I dislike the huge number of super armor I was starting to find (Darius is around level... 20 I think). So I downloaded a mod that decreased the commoness of good armor, while keeping in the level system more or less. As well as multiple others, like better horses, new weapons, improved quests, etc.

But I also started a new character Timur-i-Lenk, and the most annoying thing I found was my extreme difficulty in creating a Turco Mongol face... Especially with the lack of beards (stubble doesn't cut it).

[Keba]

The game had me glued for the vast majority of my free time until I finished it. I'm still playing (with some mods that solve the whole random NPC #3767 brigand with armor that costs more than an average small country), but it loses some of it's charm, not in the gaming sense, but on the level where you think that doing random quests is beneat the honor of the guy who saved the world, is a boss in three guilds and runs around with weapons and equipment that would make a small army run away in fear.

[Fragony]

That isn't enough. What I need is a convincing argument to bring me off of my belief that the fighting system and the way the story fits into the game will suck again (not to mention a serious computer overhaul).

If you didn't like Morrowind you will probably dislike Oblivion for the same reasons, it is basicly more of the same, but done beter and with a lot more personality. Fighting still isn't very fun imo, but the world is a lot more convincing. Shops will close at night, people will take walks, towns actually feel like towns filled with people just living their lives. Maybe you should rent it, it sounds to me like it just isn't your type of game.

[Steppe Merc]

If anyone has a really crappy computer (like me), to make it run well (but not look so well), put everything on the lowest settings, and access the console by pressing ~, then type slp 1010, and press enter. Then type tlb. It'll not look nearly as nice as it ought to, but it runs very well.

[The_Emperor]

So is it worth it then? I really liked Morrowind but have yet to get Oblivion.

[Steppe Merc]

Deffienetly. Even if you're computer is crappy, like mine, then you can get it to work (see my post above).

[edyzmedieval]

Ah good. In the best gaming magazine from Romania, Oblivion had a mega review of 12 pages.

[Zalmoxis]

It does look pretty good, but I think I'll wait to buy better parts for my computer before getting this.

[Reenk Roink]

Hmm...

I played both Morrowind and Neverwinter Nights...

I will only be playing Neverwinter Nights 2 (looking forward to it too )...

'nuff said...

[English assassin]

Coincidentally, I came off a NWN jag before loading Oblivion for the first time.

Without exaggeration, I can say my reaction was, blimey, so THIS is what it is meant to be about.

Not that I'm not also looking forward to NWN2

[The_Emperor]

Well I got Oblivion as my system matches the Reccomended spec on the box...

Trouble is I got the game home and installed it only to find my Nvidia card is not supported! I am angry because the card is an Nvidia GeForce FX with video memory size to meet the spec...

[Xiahou]

So, any new 'must have' mods? I've taken a break from the game for a few weeks and am wondering what new stuff is out there.

[Steppe Merc]

Well I got Oblivion as my system matches the Reccomended spec on the box...

Trouble is I got the game home and installed it only to find my Nvidia card is not supported! I am angry because the card is an Nvidia GeForce FX with video memory size to meet the spec...

Do this: put everything on low. Then press tab and enter: slp 1010 and then tlb. It should help.

[edyzmedieval]

I'm ordering the Collectors Edition pack.
Hope Oblivion is a good RPG, as the mega article in LEVEL Romania states.

[The_Emperor]

Do this: put everything on low. Then press tab and enter: slp 1010 and then tlb. It should help.

Hmm I tried that and it didn't do anything. Was pressing tab meant to bring up a command prompt or something because I didn't see one.

[Slyspy]

I disagree wholeheartedly with Econ21, Rosa and Fragony. IMO Oblivion is a shallow experience compared with Morrowind, especially without using mods. There is less character, everything is more generic fantasy, the quests are rail-roaded and the repetitive voice acting gets on my nerves. The levelling system makes sure that you start average and stay there, but also that you can become Arena Champion at level one or Arch-Mage without ever casting a spell. There are no guild requirements you see. Neither does the Imperial heartland, with the Emperor dead and the nation "in turmoil" have any politics. Oh and loot levelling is an immersion breaker in my book, as well as rendering thievery useless and futher adding to the pointlessness of levelling up and improving your character or searching for magical stuff in remote locations.

I do like the combat, which is fast and furious. Also the graphics are good, if your system can handle them. Which it probably cannot. Like Morrowind did it runs, and I quote the game, "like a pregnant cow" even on powerful systems.

Edit:
The rating was changed specifically because Bethseda (or the publisher, or whoever) did not inform the powers that be that the nude skins were included as part of the software. After the "Hot Coffee" fiasco this was an amazingly stupid ommission.

[Steppe Merc]

Hmm I tried that and it didn't do anything. Was pressing tab meant to bring up a command prompt or something because I didn't see one.

Damn, I'm sorry, I mean this: ~, not tab. You press it, and it should enter up a command line.

[sapi]

I disagree wholeheartedly with Econ21, Rosa and Fragony. IMO Oblivion is a shallow experience compared with Morrowind, especially without using mods. There is less character, everything is more generic fantasy, the quests are rail-roaded and the repetitive voice acting gets on my nerves. The levelling system makes sure that you start average and stay there, but also that you can become Arena Champion at level one or Arch-Mage without ever casting a spell. There are no guild requirements you see. Neither does the Imperial heartland, with the Emperor dead and the nation "in turmoil" have any politics. Oh and loot levelling is an immersion breaker in my book, as well as rendering thievery useless and futher adding to the pointlessness of levelling up and improving your character or searching for magical stuff in remote locations.

I do like the combat, which is fast and furious. Also the graphics are good, if your system can handle them. Which it probably cannot. Like Morrowind did it runs, and I quote the game, "like a pregnant cow" even on powerful systems.

Edit:
The rating was changed specifically because Bethseda (or the publisher, or whoever) did not inform the powers that be that the nude skins were included as part of the software. After the "Hot Coffee" fiasco this was an amazingly stupid ommission.

[/generic fanboy problems]

Oblivion's great, you'll only have problems with it if you let your expectations get too high...

{though i would agree that it doesn't feel as deep as morrowind did}

[English assassin]

On reflection, as an RPG I think this really is pretty good.

OK, bits are not good. The lock picking/persuasion things are pathetic, and when will game designers work out that buying things in shops is not fun? (Are there special playtesters out there who like clicking on five different buttons just to see if they can haggle the shopkeeper up from 50% to 51% of an item's value?) And in principle, I was really impressed at the way shops keep shop hours and then close, people tell you to meet them at midnight, and show up at midnight and not before, but in practice I find I'm thinking, OK, I've got to be at such and such a place at 10 pm, Il'l to pop out and fence some stolen goods and then have a few hours to kill, might as well go to the pub..., and I'm not sure yet whether I don't get enough time management in real life not to need it in a game as well.

What is really good, IMHO, though, is the way the combination of how and why you level up, the autoleveling which means you don't HAVE to level up all the time, and the incentive not to commit (too many) crimes means you don't have to play the game as if you were a kleptomanic psychopath. (cough NWN cough).

I'm playing out of my usual type as a thoroughly amoral assassin, and I find I've still killed far fewer people than "normal" and each fight/hit is still a big deal. (Also I admit I find the combat a bit tricky which probably contributes to that. I just can't get the hang that its left click/righthand weapon right click/lefthand sheild, seems the wrong way round to me. I couild do with an autoresolve option to be honest.) And actually being able to use stealth, hide in shadow, etc, is very good.

Can't say I've had problems running it either, and my machine is good but not brand new.

All in all, very impressed.

[Samurai Waki]

I'm actually a little more dissapointed in Oblivion compared to Morrowind. Although the interface is much nicer, and combat is way more fun. But the fact remains that Oblivion's story isn't as immersive in my opinion and the setting isn't as deep. I think the world could've been much, much larger. Anyhow, I've already spent some serious time on it, and have thus far beaten the game with one character. Now I'm just debating wether I should do it again with another character type or just put it aside and forget about it... Well NWN 2 is coming out soon, so I'll be waiting for that.

[hrvojej]

I find Oblivion to be largely inferior to Morrowind. I really dislike the autolevelling system of monsters and loot, as it feels like the game is punishing you instead of rewarding you for being successful. There is no incentive to improve, as the game will feel pretty much the same as it did when I was level 1. I end up getting better equipment just to be able to stay on equal footing with the goblins, instead of feeling like I was advancing and improving to tackle bigger tasks. This lack of incentive to play on is also felt in the relative scarcity of quests. Yes, it can be nice to have all dialogue given in full speech, but it also means that there fewer dialogue options available to you overall and fewer quests to do in the game, and these negatives definitely outweight any immersion effects I was supposed to get from the spoken dialogue. And, with the autolevelling system in place, I feel there's no real point in randomly entering the dungeons just for the heck of it, as I can only hope to find some generic loot appropriate for my level and encounter monsters in fights that feel exactly the same regardless of level I'm at right now.
The inventory system is also lacking any detail and is too console-like, which is bad in my book. With the travel system that kills any sense of exploration, the shopkeepers who all of a sudden all have dwarven armor for sale after you've reached certain level - while they exclusively had trinkets in store before that - , and a very generic feel of the environments (unlike the tribal world of Morrowind wastelands that had some real flavor), I lost interest fairly quickly, despite being hooked at first. On the positive side, the combat is better and more visceral than Morrowind's, and the game looks good, but I'd prefer to have more substance than all the bells and whistles and 3D grass. All in all, to me Oblivion feels overly "gamey" and fails to provide a real sense of immersion, whereas Morrowind felt like a real world laid out for me to explore - the timetables of NPCs just can't make up for what the game lacks in detail in other departments.

[NodachiSam]

Interesting Post Hrovjej.

I'm considering purchasing Oblivion myself. I was an incredibly huge fan or Morrowind and found it really immersive. However, I have some major reservations before I get Oblivion that I worry about.

As mentioned the auto scaling sounds enormously offputting. If even the rats are able to kick your ass at level 15 if you're not careful , what is the point of leveling up in the first place. One of the things I loved in Morrowind was that sense of accomplishment when something that made you flee before you could now kill without too much trouble. It allowed you to feel really egotistical and proud of how strong you've become. It sounds like you'll rarely be in over you head and never really feel indanger. (which is something I enjoyed)

I hear there are fewer quests and fewer factions. How do you guys feel about that? Does it affect replayability alot? In Morrowind you had to play at least 3 times to play all the factions as some were mutually exclusive.

Also, I hate that they removed spears, and made Argonians and those cat things I never played move so human like. These might seem inconsequential but I loved the feel of playing an argonian and the spear was of my two favourite weapons, the other being the long sword. The spear required a lot of skill to use well but was extremely effective. I feel really confident that these things are gone due to the extra money involved to add them (more animations and such) and I think its a shame.

I hear flying is also out but yet check this out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyHiIeBsc9E

On the plus side I hear there are no longer cliff racers.

[Samurai Waki]

The Nice thing about owning it on a PC, is that there is at least one mod designer out there that wants to change the autoleveling system back to the way it was in Morrowind.

[econ21]

As mentioned the auto scaling sounds enormously offputting. If even the rats are able to kick your ass at level 15 if you're not careful , what is the point of leveling up in the first place.

AFAIK, only the "top" monster of a particular type levels with you. So rats won't kill you at level 15, but I guess other kinds of wildlife will tend to spawn instead. However, a Vampire Lord - as a "top" kind of monster - will tend to be about your level.

I must say the auto-levelling doesn't bother me. I rather liked fighting Vampires at low level, rather than being insta-killed. It meant I could do some fun quests before I burnt out - which I did with both Morrowind and Oblivion after 40+ hours. The auto-levelling also meant I only died when I messed up, rather than dying because I went into a cave that I was somehow not "supposed" to go into. Feeling all mighty and powerful at level 15 is not important to me - at level 15, I want to be fighting something all mighty and powerful, not owning rats. But with a non-linear, open-form game like Oblivion that's not possible without some kind of auto-levelling.

I may go back to Oblivion, but I guess my main reservation relates to the feel and depth of the world. It is just not compelling and involving enough - there's no "hook" to keep you coming back in. The characters are bland and the main story too optional. By contrast, in the best CRPGs, like Fallout 2 or Baldur's Gate 2, the characters and story just engage you so much, you stick with it. I guess I just don't like these single player MMORG-wannabees that Bethesda seem to specialise in.

I should say that I have not tried the Assassin quests - just not my cup of tea, although I gather many people find them the most compelling strand of the game.

[hrvojej]

One of the things I loved in Morrowind was that sense of accomplishment when something that made you flee before you could now kill without too much trouble. It allowed you to feel really egotistical and proud of how strong you've become.

This is exactly what I miss in Oblivion. I remember how fun it was to try to fight the guy with the Umbra sword in Morrowind after every few levels to see whether I can finally beat him, and the sense of accomplishment once I finally did. Oblivion just lacks this sort of "man, am I pleased with myself" sort of feeling, since everything levels up when you do. I simply don't have that pleasure of pushing myself to the limit to be able to better handle whatever future may bring, as I know that everything I'll find in a given dungeon will be scaled to my level, and I won't get anything out of it that will enable me to tread deeper water - because ultimately, there is not deeper water to tread. Why would I even want to clear out more dungeons and level up when this is the case? There aren't even some appealing items that the stores have for sale that you an see right off the bat, as better stuff only shows up once you have gotten a few levels and you are finding those things all over the place.

On the other hand, this can create problems in the completely opposite direction as well. To illustrate it with an example: there is a quest where you have to help some farmers fend off goblins raiding their farm. If both of the farmers survive, you'll get the reward, if they die, you don't. I tried this quest at level 1, and somehow managed to kill the goblins but the farmers died. Ok, I thought, I'll reload and get back to it later when I'm able to slay the goblins more easily and before they manage to kill the farmers. But, surprise surprise, when I got back at level 8, the goblins have leveled up as well, and were equally hard to kill as they were before, but now they also killed the idiot farmers even more easily. IMHO that's just stupid, frustrating as hell, and throughly off-putting.

And yes, fewer quests and fewer factions are a negative. I like the freeform games, but since I don't feel compelled to improve myself otherwise, I guess a plethora of quests would do the trick to keep me occupied. However, due to the autolevelling thing you can complete a vast majority of the quests while at a fairly low level, which means that you can get them over with quickly and early - while at the same time you again don't have to work on yourself to be able complete them in the first place. At level 10, I completed nearly all of the side quests in the game (not the faction quests - but there are only 4 factions basically). On top of that, you do many of the quest together with some annoying companions whom you should in fact try to keep alive, but I would really much rather just kill them myself because they only get in the way and prevent me from playing the game the way I want to play it.

There are many other silly little things that are missing, some of which are not even normally found in RPGs or really important, but that were there in Morrowind and I really liked the fact that Morrowind had them. For example, the armor set is comprised of fewer pieces now, you can't wear clothes at the same time you wear armor, you can drink several potions at once during a fight while the game is paused, there is much less interaction with the NPCs and the interaction is ridiculously simple, etc. etc. Overall, the world just feels way less detailed and alive than Morrowind's. It feels like a run-of-the-mill action RPG, and not like a game in the same league as Daggerfall and Morrowind.

In short, my advice is wait for the bargain bin.

[NodachiSam]

I will be waiting until at least august when I get a new computer. I guess I will wait a little while occupying myself with something else until it drops in price.

[The_Emperor]

Well after a new grapics card (that also comes in handy for RTW) I am now settling back into Oblivion.

By the sounds of the Auto-levelling system it does seem rather silly that creatures will suddenly start dropping Daedric, Glass and Dwarven armour. In Morrowind I remember having a great time trying to track these sets down to wear on my Dark Elf.

Glass armour was only avaliable in a few places and the full Daedric set was only avaliable in one place from what I remember. Dwarven stuff was also likewise relegated to the lovely volcano that occupied the middle of the map and it made travelling a bit more involving...

"Bloody volcano in the way, have to go around it" (30 mins later still walking around the purple perimiter) "Jeeezzz how big is this thing?"

As for Oblivion I am starting to enjoy the Kvatch quests but I had a lot of trouble with the troops you get to help. They all enjoyed running around all over the place and pulling enemies onto me while the main quest guys passes out every few minutes... In the end I resorted to a kind of "Operation get behind the darkies", as in the NPC guys runs in and starts fighting while I am sneaking around behind him watching.

Certainly was more fun than running in and getting swamped.

[English assassin]

[QUOTE=econ21]

I must say the auto-levelling doesn't bother me. I rather liked fighting Vampires at low level, rather than being insta-killed. ... The auto-levelling also meant I only died when I messed up, rather than dying because I went into a cave that I was somehow not "supposed" to go into. Feeling all mighty and powerful at level 15 is not important to me - at level 15, I want to be fighting something all mighty and powerful, not owning rats. But with a non-linear, open-form game like Oblivion that's not possible without some kind of auto-levelling.[QUOTE]

I agree with this. Unless you want the game to, in effect, "tell" you that, OK, NOW you must go into that dungeon, alright, done that, now its time to do this bit of this quest, and so on, you have to have some sort of scaling. Without that you either get toasted at low level, or wind up playing what has basically become a superhero game at high level ("oh, orcs" [click-dead], "oh, more Orcs" [click-dead, repeat 500 times, wonder when the fun starts])

Although there is something to be said for wiping out a whole room full of rabble with one spell/whirlwind ninja like skills, the fun wears off. I like low level adventures where death is a real possibility if you get it wrong, and this preserves that feel for me.

Possibly the game is so open form you don't get drawn into the story, I'm not sure. Maybe you have to make your own story a bit (eg I am ignoring the main quest with my assassin character, and only doing the Dark Brotherhood quests. That's his "story" and it seems to hang together well enough. If I wanted to do the main quest afterwards I'd probably start again with a more mainstream character, there's only so much hiding in shadows you want to do after all. I like that I can do that, starting over each time with a different character type and it doesn't matter that they are all low level. )

[Slyspy]

There are two things that hook players on RPGs. One is a decent storyline, whic to be honest Oblivion lacks: There is no mystery, no politics and no suspense. The second hook is the urge to forward your character through levelling up and collecting gizmos. The levelling system in Oblivion prevents this from having any purpose at all. It is little wonder that people get bored, complain of a lack of replayability and uninstall after completing the main quest. Sure some of the side quests are interesting, but by and large there is no point in having a vast free-form world if there is nothing much out there.

I for one have found the constant "challenge" presented by the crude levelling system to be completely lacking in actual challenge. At least Morrowind started off challenge and became boring later. Oblivion starts off boring and never improved.

Oh, and please note that creatures and NPCs level in different ways. Creatures (wolves, trolls, daedric monsters etc) are levelled by type, not by actual level. So a level one PC will face scamps and never see a clannfear, while a level fifteen will see clannfears and never see another scamp. Once you hit a certain level (I think it goes in fives) you will not see creatures from the previous level again, except those few which have already spawned or are scripted.

NPCs (bandits, vampires etc) are scaled directly in relation to the level of the PC, as is their equipment. There may be some variation in actual level, but the NPC type will always be there. This is why you can kill a Vampire, say, at level one. He is at level one as well, or just a little higher. It is also why he is armed with a spoon and a length of yarn. At level twenty he will be armed, like everyone else, with a selection of decent gear but the fight will still be much the same because he will still mirror your character.

There are exceptions. Some characters have set levels (or at least a min and a max, I forget), for example. This means they follow the old Morrowind way of either being really dangerous or really easy. The protagonist in the Mages Guild quests springs to mind. Also the guards are set at level twenty. So early in the game they'll slaughter your opponents for you, but at later levels they will be slaughtered themselves, even if the opponents are still just bandits.

[econ21]

I for one have found the constant "challenge" presented by the crude levelling system to be completely lacking in actual challenge. At least Morrowind started off challenge and became boring later. Oblivion starts off boring and never improved.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I found nothing at level 2 in Morrowind nearly as much fun or as exciting (or with as interesting story) as Kvatch and closing the first gate to Oblivion. What was I doing in Morrowind at level 2? Ah yes, fighting mud crabs and desperately trying to walk at a faster speed than an 80 year old cripple. Fun times.