UN draft on nuclear Iran tabled

**Kagemusha** · 05-03-2006, 22:21

It seems that our Western Nations have finally gathered themselves enough to propose sanctions against Iran in UN.Even if Russia and China will torpedo the proposal im glad that even something is happening.Here is a short article about it:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4970904.stm

**Louis VI the Fat** · 05-03-2006, 22:36

I think Iran will end up with nukes no matter what.

But I'd be happy if all this ends with something of a unified western voice again for the first time since the collapse of the Soviet Union. No more of all that irresponsible bickering amongst first world democracies. The 'end of history' has not been achieved, the world is not automatically moving towards western style freedom and peacefulness. It is full of wickedness.

**Reenk Roink** · 05-03-2006, 22:48

Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

The 'end of history' has not been achieved, the world is not automatically moving towards western style freedom and peacefulness. It is full of wickedness.

Wow.

Good thing you're not in charge...

**Alexander the Pretty Good** · 05-03-2006, 23:00

Really? I had almost the opposite thought...

**Louis VI the Fat** · 05-03-2006, 23:04

Hmm, maybe I wasn't clear. It should read freedom as oppossed to wickedness.

Let's try it like this:
'the world is not automatically moving towards western style freedom and peacefulness. On the contrary, it can be an evil place. Full of wickedness. Against which the democracies of this world should be united.'

**Reenk Roink** · 05-03-2006, 23:38

Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

Hmm, maybe I wasn't clear. It should read freedom as oppossed to wickedness.

Let's try it like this:
'the world is not automatically moving towards western style freedom and peacefulness. On the contrary, it can be an evil place. Full of wickedness. Against which the democracies of this world should be united.'

We breathe easier, but not by much...

Of course the world will not move towards "western style freedom and peacefulness" by itself. (Off topic, but "peaceful" is ironic because the current western dominance which has allowed for relative peace within its borders is a result of simply being more belligerent than the rest of the world for the past 400 years) One gets the sense that the rest of the world doesn't want the "western style" attached.

Also, it is striking that something not up to the standards of "western style" is considered "evil".

Perhaps the rest of the world is tainted (full?) with wickedness, yes; but the western democracies need only a superficial introspection to find the heart of it...

**Divinus Arma** · 05-03-2006, 23:59

To be fair, Reenk Roink, let's take a look at anything but Western Styles.

Communism is brutally oppressive. Religious theocracies are repressive towards individual liberty and women's rights. And of course there is simply despotism.

What model do you suggest might be equivalent in ushering a society towards security, stability, and prosperity?

**Louis VI the Fat** · 05-04-2006, 00:46

Originally Posted by Reenk Roink

Off topic, but "peaceful" is ironic because the current western dominance which has allowed for relative peace within its borders is a result of simply being more belligerent than the rest of the world for the past 400 years)

Nah, the west has not been more belligerent than the rest, it has just waged war better.
Also, our internal peace and wealth has not been achieved at the expense of others. It has been achieved by a long, slow ascendency into democracy and the rule of law.

Also, it is striking that something not up to the standards of "western style" is considered "evil".

That's stretching it a bit, but at heart, I'm afraid that is my view, yes. I have never been a fan of cultural relativism. I hold the universal declaration of human rights for universal indeed. That is my western style freedom. 'Western' to include countries like Japan in this respect.

Countries like Sudan, Iraq, Burma and North Korea suck not because of some evil western imperialist plot. They suffer not from too much western influence, but from too little.

Say what, let the west open it's borders and offer a free plane ticket, then let's see how the people from these countries vote between theirs and ours.

**Kagemusha** · 05-03-2006, 23:13

Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

I think Iran will end up with nukes no matter what.

But I'd be happy if all this ends with something of a unified western voice again for the first time since the collapse of the Soviet Union. No more of all that irresponsible bickering amongst first world democracies. The 'end of history' has not been achieved, the world is not automatically moving towards western style freedom and peacefulness. It is full of wickedness.

I agree.While this doesnt most propably mean anything on the whole process maybe it brings the Western Nations closer to each other.