Friendship

[Divinus Arma]

I posted this in the backroom because the frontroom is way too
"popcorn". We get a serious and interested crowd back here and I want opinions from folks who actually have an opinion.

A recent personal event has forced me to retake a look at the concept of friendship.

previosuly, I saw two categories of friendship: (1) aquaintances: Those who are "shallow" friends, abnd (2) friends: Those you would die for.

Well. My level of friendship is this: I'll ****** dioe for you. Anything goes. Fisticuffs, barroom brawsls, you name it. There is no limit to our bond. but I expect the same in return.

A key point of this is dignity and pride. They do not exist in friendship. I can piss on you and you can piss on me. We are like brothers. When it comes to friendship, dignity is the vice of the selfish.

I think of myself as the best friend a guy could ever have. Total selflessness. I recently had my best frined give it all up for personal pride. It was jacked up, and I am pretty broken over his betrayal.


So what is friendship to YOU? Can total personal sacrifrice exist in friendship? Is friendship meant to be shallow, or can it be as deep as I explained here?

(Language - Beirut)

[GiantMonkeyMan]

to me a friend is someone you can take the piss out of but he/she finds it funny rather than offensive and neither of you really care... i wouldn't exactly die for my friends or do anything for them but that might just be my own selfishness or your good manner but i wouldn't exactly stand by and watch if one of my mates was being beaten up or something... me and a few other mates started 'bullying' one of my best friends recently and he found it hilarious which i think shows the strength of our friendship

[Zalmoxis]

Often times in the US it seems like friendship is more of a shallow relation.
I try to be friendly, but here it's just not easy; people who you thought were friends can turn on you for no reason. Sometimes you call people friends, invite them over and you can still feel this tension just under the surface. I dislike the whole thing, but there's not much choice.

[Fragony]

There are friends and people that are fun to hang out with. I try not to take it too seriously. A friend is someone you can rely on, I think of myselve as someone you can rely on as I would never let someone down. Someone who wouldn't let me down I call a friend, thankfully I have a lot of both, people to just hang out with and real friends who would come to my aid when needed.

[Dutch_guy]

I consider someone a friend if he or she stands up for me, gives advice when I need it and doesn't simply walk away when times get rough - when you need friends the most. As they say, in times of need you know who your real friends are.

At the moment, still being in High school, I don't think I really have any friends I'd die for should the moment arise. Neither do I think my friends would die for me. Now don't get me wrong I have good friends, and I most certainly don't consider them shallow, but considering I think they won't die for me makes it hard for me to do so for them.

So I think, to answer your question Div A, friendship is meant to go deep. The downside of that concept is that one might realize he has less friends than he once thought he had.

[Quid]

There are three categories to friendship in my opinion:

a) As DA pointed out, the aquaintance, where you know someone (at the workplace or elsewhere) and can have a normal conversation. People you know, in other words.

b) A friend, where you go out and do things together on a more or less regular basis. People you don't mind spending time with and gernerally get along well. You would not necessarily 'die' for them and a longer absence of 'doing things together' will result in the demotion to 'aquaintance'.

c) 'Best' friend, where you would actually do anything for the person and know that you would get anything you wished in return. This represents a deep bond between two (or more) people that cannot be broken through any regular means. Each would willingly give their lives for the other (in extreme situations) without thinking about it. This bond does not require regular contact because both are sort of a part of each other (like brothers, perhaps). Usually, a person will only meet maybe two to three of such people in one's life. They are extremely rare and should be cherished for what they are.

There is another sort of friendship that only crops up in extreme situations. DA, as far as I know you're a soldier. You would know about such friendship. It is a little different because it mostly occurs in life threatening situations (or extreme mental or physical duress). I personally have never been to war (Swiss and all) but even throughout my time in the national service I have experienced such friendship where one helps the other without regard to personal interest. It's simply the right thing to do. You have been taught it. This sort of friendship does often not last a life-time and is only very active during service. It usually fades quickly to normal friendship (and story telling) once you have completed your stint in the armed forces.

I am unsure as to what your situation was with one of your friends, DA. However, a best friend does not mean that you can take advantage of that bond anyhow you please. You must repect the other's opinion and choice without question. It should be clear to you why or how the choice was made. In other words, it isn't a 'free-for-all'.

If, however, pride got in the way of something and is, hence, the reason why the friendship broke you might want to re-think your definition of 'friend'. Now, personally, I wouldn't willingly embarrass myself in front of people just to please a mate (like showing me arse in a pub, or something). My mate would understand as he would most probably not do the same for me (then again, I don't know why I would ask for such a silly thing in the first place...). Never mind, it was a stupid example...

Hope this helped...

I hope for everyone to have best mates...it's great...

Quid

[Rodion Romanovich]

1. weak acquintaincy - you don't say hi, and try to pretend you don't know the guy/girl, he/she does the same. You might still be polite and work together occasionally when forced to. Although you know that the other knows you, you pretend not to, not necessarily actively but at least passively.
1. acquintaincy - you say "hi" and are polite, but no more, unless under special circumstances.
2. light friend - a mutual gain deal - quid pro quo - you can provide each others with goods or services, and this relation is strengthened when you make sure the other part needs what you can provide and doesn't think betrayal is worth the cost it'll have. Of course light forms of betrayal or ending of the mutual gain deal is forgiveable, but not betrayal as in going directly from ally to friend.
3. normal friend - the mutual gain you make is mainly that you both enjoy the social interaction with the other, and goods and services are less important. Often they can even be kept out of the picture to make the social interaction more smooth.
4. good friend - someone who saved your life or whose life you saved, a friend from a war, or someone who is trustworthy in all aspects - he (can also be a she although women are controlled by whims and dangerous to trust) doesn't compete for the same woman, he doesn't compete for the same job, he doesn't compete for anything else you know of, and the mutual gain you can have out of each others is both social interaction, goods and services, and you have about equal resources in what you can do for each others, and you have a history of trustworthy behavior between you. You might even die for that person, but not unless you're sure that person would do the same for you. And preferably you'd not die for that person, but rather make whatever bastard threatens your good friend die for his cause. Best of all is to tactically inspire the good friend, so he can deal with these dangers himself, so you never have to sacrifice your life or see him/her die, or have to attack any aggressor unprovokedly and illegaly but instead make sure the aggressor attacks but runs into impossible opposition and can be legally punished for the aggression. This type of friend is very rare. If you can reach this status with anyone except your family you can consider yourself lucky.

[LeftEyeNine]

I'm not sure about the use in English, but friends are everywhere as logn as you have normal social functions and is called "Arkadaş". And those are rare but stand aside with you when you are in deep **** are called "Dost".

Therefore IMO there are 2 of them and I prefer having friendship with the second group. I do not waste time with people, I create time for those that worth it.

[Somebody Else]

I rate it on how much notice I need to give if I want them to come for a drink with me... or whatever.

My best friends - I'll call and be meeting in a bar within half an hour, at the other end of the line - there are some people I'd only invite along if it was a big gathering like a flat-party (uni-style). And then there are those I won't invite at all, but will chat to if we happen to be at the same event...

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I view my friends in three classes, essentially. I try not to rate them as people, but how close friends they are to me.

3: People I know only over the Internet, or people I have only met maybe once (not including family for the second one, of course. It's hard to meet everyone in an extended family like mine often). They may be (and usually are) a good crowd, but I simply don't know what you're like in real life (or I know very little of what you're like), and would probably trust this "class" with very few things that may harm me, if any.

2: People I have known for a while. Real life friends who I can have a good conversation with, head to the movies with, stuff like that. Most of my friends fall into this category.

1: Close friends. I would trust them walking behind me with a loaded shotgun, even if I was carrying millions of Euros on me. Friends who are as close or closer then quite a bit of my family. Friends I have known for a long time. I would place no more then five or six friends in this category. If zombies or the Americans attacked, this would be my guerilla squad. The friends who I can really trust, and the feeling is mutual.

[A.Saturnus]

True friendship means for me that I'll be there if the other needs me, whenever, whatever it is. It is also a relationship that cannot be destroyed by any means but death. If someone is my friend, he will be my friend, even if he becomes selfish, an *******, crazy or whatever. He may change, but I won't.

(Language - Beirut)

[Justiciar]

I try not to get too close to most of my friends. I'll find a clique and hang on for dear life until I'm given the boot, without really getting too chumy with anyone. I've been seriously lucky in that, though. Occasionally someone will seek to become better friends with me despite of any distance I keep. Through that proccess I've gained a close group of friends who've stayed with me despite the fact that I'm a selfish arsehole that essentially neglects them. That's friendship tbh.

Gheyness.

[Avicenna]

Personally, I haven't had many experiences yet being still at school, but I agree with Quid in that it's probably only soldiers or people such as operatives and police who get to form such close relationships that you would willingly sacrifice yourself for him/her.

My closest friend doesn't have the kind of 'best friend' bond with me that some of you have described (willing to do anything). People at my age are probably still too childish for that. Lots of people I know are quite selfish, being spoilt by their parents. That probably doesn't help either.

[Major Robert Dump]

There are certain things "friends" can do that reflect so largley on their character or their role of me as friend that it will make me shut them out without warning.

One of the biggerst letdowns I ever had was when a good friend explained to me that his ex-girlfriends new boyfriend was stalking him, and then one day he shows up with his bruised face the size of a watermelon. Apparently the guy jumped him after a concert and threatened to do it again. So I start going out with the friend where this assailant might run into him, just for the sake of protecting a friend and returning the favor of bulldozing him when he wasnt looking.

Then, on Napster of all places, I find a file called "Matt ********* real tough guy" just by lucky chance. I listen to it. Its a series of answering machine messages, with dates and times, where Matt calls and leaves threatening, offensive messages on the new boyfirends machine. These were terrible, terrible things that you dont say to people, let alone their girlfriends. Any man with half a testicle would have jumped trhis guy too.

Then some people also told me that "Matt" instigated the altercation at the concert, and his story pretty much checked out when I talked to tohers.

In short, this guy used me, lied to me, was willing to possibly have me get my ass beaten for the issue that he wrongly brought on himself, and continued to lie about it. Never talked to him again, didnt tell hima bout the Napster file, but did email it too a lot of peopole

On a side note, the napster file also had a message from after the Matt buttkicking, where he threatened the new boyfriend by saying he was in the mafia, had powerful drug dealer friends, and relatives who were lawyers. What a frikking joke this guy was.....

[Byzantine Prince]

I rate my friends based on how good-looking they are. It's the only sure thing.

[Avicenna]

I rate my friends based on how good-looking they are. It's the only sure thing.

Best looking being best friends or worst?`

[Strike For The South]

A friend is someone who will bail you out of jail a best friend is the guy next to you saying "man we ****** up"

[Tachikaze]

There is only one category of friend for me.

This friend lets you borrow money and you don't have to pay it back.

They do your homework for you.

They treat you to dinner whenever you go out together, and sometimes when they're not with you.

You can stay at his/her home and eat all their food and use their bed while they sleep on the couch.

They'll help you rob liquor stores and take the punishment for you while you get off scot-free.

All other "friends" are simply useless.

[Papewaio]

That kind of friend sounds like someone who will only feed your pleasures and vices.

I prefer a friend who can and will tell you the truth about how much of a bleep you are being, you take it on board and improve yourself... while getting to call them a bleep for being an insentive bleep.

Friends help you reach happiness even if that means removing some of your pleasures and misconceptions that feed those pleasures.

[yesdachi]

A friend is someone who will stand with you when times are good but a good friend, a true friend is someone that will stand with you when things are bad. The tough thing about being able to tell the difference is that you usually have to go thru something bad before you can really tell. For me, the only other person that gets the same treatment as the true friend but isn’t, would be a brother or other close family member.

Another trait of a true friend might be forgiveness when they do something stupid like, “give it all up for personal pride”.

[Sjakihata]

Friendship doesnt exist, only mutual beneficence.

[Divinus Arma]

Me and my pal have been close friends through the last six years. We weathered some hard core **** together; brought down some corrupt cops at our station together, bought homes on the same street, I helped him through a divorce, kept an eye on his wife when he went to Iraq, and we watched each other's backs when some moments got generally scary. I trained his butt when he first arrived. I looked out for him and forgave his personal faults (bit of an angry fella).

Then he ups and decides that he doesn't want to be friends 'cause I drew a penis on his face with a permanent marker when he was smashed.

Breaks my friggin heart. What a wus.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

Then he ups and decides that he doesn't want to be friends 'cause I drew a penis on his face with a permanent marker when he was smashed.

Surely he'll come round.

If you can't rely on your friends to draw on your face when drunk, what can you rely on them for?

[yesdachi]

Then he ups and decides that he doesn't want to be friends 'cause I drew a penis on his face with a permanent marker when he was smashed.

Any chance you took a photo? …nevermind.

[doc_bean]

Then he ups and decides that he doesn't want to be friends 'cause I drew a penis on his face with a permanent marker when he was smashed.

Was he often a victim of such pranks ? Did he do them himself ?

[Reverend Joe]

Somehow it just seemed so appropriate.

[Divinus Arma]

While he had never drawn on me, he was certainly the type to do just that.

He is very mischievous, and that is one of the reasons we get along so well. He isn't quite as a brazen as I am. Once there was a Parade in our downtown and we were hung over and walking by. Well, the crowd was too thick, so I thought it would be faster to just walk in the parade next to a float and wave at the crowd. So I did just that. I picked a random float with regularly dressed people, and jumped in the parade, waving to the crowd. There were about four other people with us, tagging along. He stayed on the sidelines with the people who refused to join, and one of the tag-alongs jumped in the parade with me. We just smiled and did the beauty queen wave until we got to the block we wanted to be at.

But yeah, he is normally a nutjob like me. The same night that I chiefed him, he was screaming at the top of his lungs before he went over to a neighbor's house who were having a little mariachi party (some didn't speak english, and we never met 'em before), and jumped in, offering them beer and trading shots of tequila. Then he hit on that neighbor's 14 year old daughter- that was bad, I had to coax him back to the party before he got his butt kicked by a gang of illegals. They were pretty understanding for the most part. As long as he doesn't do it again.

We went to Vegas once, and he was hitting on hookers all night. I kept having to drag him away. I had to push a hooker away at one point. Then she screamed and her pimp came rolling after us in his wheelchair. It was hilarious.

As for the photo: We were videotaping it! We wanted to put it on Break.com, but he broke the DVD so nobody could see it again.

This kind of thing is no big deal. Once I got drunk at my own party before all the guests. So they did the only honorable thing: They stole all of my beer and went to another party after pouring chinese noodles all over my car from the balcony. I totally deserved it, and I have never gotten smashed before my guests again after that. I'm Divinus Arma, I have a responsibility to be drunk. But I have a greater responsibility to ensure that my guests are drunker or at least drunk first. That what being a good host is all about. He shoulda known better.

Now if it were at somebody else's house, no way in hell would I have let that happen. I would've stood guard over his drunken self for the whole night, and I would have expected him to do the same for me.

[Strike For The South]

dude hell come round and if he dosent you stab him. God made the weekends so we could be inhibtied. I drank all of my friends vodlka this weekend and stole a gram and a half from him he was pissed but he is also my best friend and Ive been saving his ass since the 5th grade people often forget the big picture and foucse on the right now and you cant do that

[GoreBag]

I don't categorize the people around me. I may judge them based on whatever criteria I want, but I'm not going to try to label them. They are what they are.

DA, your friend's being a dork. Seriously, a whale penis. He'll either come around, or he won't, I guess. Have you tried talking to him about it, if only to get this off your chest?

[doc_bean]

While he had never drawn on me, he was certainly the type to do just that.

Well then, he's being an idiot.