US Govt Pursue UK hacker

[English assassin]

The judges comments:

"I readily accept the probable sentence is likely to be appreciably harsher in the US than in comparable circumstances it would in the UK," the judge told the court. "But it must be obvious to any defendant that if you choose to commit a crime in a foreign country, you run the risk of being prosecuted in that country."

That's the beginning and end of it IMHO.

[Haudegen]

I´m just happy to live in a country where the constitution protects me from being delivered to non-european courts.

[Louis VI the Fat]

But it must be obvious to any defendant that if you choose to commit a crime in a foreign country, you run the risk of being prosecuted in that country

Was it commited in a foreign country? The question of international jurisdiction is always interesting, even more so with the advent of new technology. Where was this crime commited?
If you mug an American tourist in London, you obviously get trialed in the UK. But what if you plunder his bank account over the internet, from London, without the victim ever having set foot in Britain?

His acts are a criminal act within the UK as well. If it wasn't, I would see no reason whatsoever to not extradite him indeed. But as it stands, A UK law was broken in UK territory, and I believe extradition should be applied under the principle of subsidiarity, that is, if British legal means for prosecution are either exhausted or non-existent.


Mr McKinnon was originally tracked down and arrested under the Computer Misuse Act by the UK National Hi-Tech Crime Unit (NHTCU) in 2002, and later that year was also indicted by the United States government

[Louis VI the Fat]

I´m just happy to live in a country where the constitution protects me from being delivered to non-european courts.

Really? French law doesn't, which I fully support.

[Haudegen]

Yes, Sir! Look:

Article 16 [Citizenship; extradition]

(1) No German may be deprived of his citizenship. Citizenship may be lost only pursuant to a law, and against the will of the person affected only if he does not become stateless as a result.
(2) No German may be extradited to a foreign country. A different regulation to cover extradition to a Member State of the European Union or to an international court of law may be laid down by law, provided that constitutional principles are observed.

IMHO it´s a good thing. After all one of the reasons for having a nation is that it protects the individual from other nations. Exceptions are only made for our very good friends in the EU.

[Louis VI the Fat]

'No German may be extradited to a foreign country'

Meh, German preoccupation with the 'Volk' again?

These things work in two directions. Agreements over extradition of suspects also means that those who break your own laws do not get to live happy lives in Argentina or Paraguay without fear for prosecution.

[Haudegen]

'No German may be extradited to a foreign country'

Meh, German preoccupation with the 'Volk' again?

Sorry, I think it´s not at all nationalistic. And mind you: The EC-contract demands us not to discriminate against EC-cititzens, therefore we grant them the same rights, i.e. a Frenchman, Englishman, ... is protected by Art 16 II, too.

And all other nationalities at least can rest assured they will not be extradited to some place where a fair trial and human rights are not guaranteed. However this doesn´t follow from Article 16 but Article 1 I Grundgesetz.

These things work in two directions. Agreements over extradition of suspects also means that those who break your own laws do not get to live happy lives in Argentina or Paraguay without fear for prosecution.

If a German criminal is caught in, say Argentina, there wouldn´t be a problem. Argentina could agree to extradite him, as we could offer them the same.

In the case that the crimanal is not a German: German criminal law doesn´t have the ambition to punish offenders everywhere and under every circumstance.

If the price we have to pay for our Article 16 is, that we don´t get offenders from others countries delivered as efficiently as others do, then so be it.

[Ser Clegane]

In the case that the crimanal is not a German: German criminal law doesn´t have the ambition to punish offenders everywhere and under every circumstance.

Actually I think German criminal law should have the ambition to punish offenders who commit crimes in Germany, even if they are not of German nationality

[Louis VI the Fat]

Sorry, I think it´s not at all nationalistic.

It isn't nationalistic. Nor is Germany in general.

No, what struck me, is the extend to which German law is personal, not territorial. That laws and jurisdiction are tied to membership of a Volk and not a territory is in sharp contrast to the underlying principles of French law.