Aztec pics!!!!

[edyzmedieval]

I think they look too much like chicken/tigers.

Seriously, they indeed look weird. But they are historically correct, so nobody can argue.

[Divinus Arma]

They certainly look detailed.

My only concern is this (and someone can correct me if I am wrong):

The warfare of the azteks was not in tight european-style formations in the open field. I would imagine thick jungles with complicated terrain. In fact, this should be the major strength of the natives.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

They certainly look detailed.

My only concern is this (and someone can correct me if I am wrong):

The warfare of the azteks was not in tight european-style formations in the open field. I would imagine thick jungles with complicated terrain. In fact, this should be the major strength of the natives.

That should definetly be the case for the Incas or Mayas who fought in jungle and mountainous terrain but the Aztecs fought mainly on open terrain and rolling country which would later prove there undoing when fighting the cavalry of the Spanish conquistadors

[GiantMonkeyMan]

they look nice! and when we got to see their city as well that looked great... they are definately gonna be a faction i'm gonna enjoy playing (or destroying for that matter)

[Peasant Phill]

What are they?

The first are probably jaguar wariors, but what animal does the second unit represent?

[Galagros]

What are they?

The first are probably jaguar wariors, but what animal does the second unit represent?

Eagles... I think.

[Furious Mental]

The blokes in the top picture seem to have atlatls

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

I think the second picture might be coyote costume, infact i'm sure of it. The warriors would often have coyote, eagle or Jaguar costume in battle.

[Avicenna]

I think the second picture might be coyote costume, infact i'm sure of it. The warriors would often have coyote, eagle or Jaguar costume in battle.

Coyotes? Aren't those from Australia?

Anyhow, the Jaguar and Eagle warriors were the two most prestigious warrior groups.

They are kind of full time as well, as they regularly provoked wars with the neighbouring states, to capture enemies to be sacrificed to the Sun (forgot its name) who demanded that others sacrificed themselves if they wanted him to move. That caused many of the other natives to ally with the Spaniards, as the Aztecs were hated for the short period of time that they were in power.

@Favre: They don't stab the Spaniards with wood like you say. They had obsidian blades on their weapons, which are incredibly sharp, smooth black rocks. Also, it's not that the Aztecs as a whole were stupid. You can blame Moctezuma. Also, it would be like having Jesus come back again for Christians. According to their religion, the god Quetzalcotl (spelling?) had left after teaching their civilisation the basics, such as farming and writing, and then had sailed off, to return much later. Hernan Cortez seemed to fit the description, being white, having a mount (Aztecs wouldn't know what dragons looked like, and Quetzalcotl could change mounts I guess) and having funny things that they've never seen before. The horses were not just important due to their military role, they had no horses in America, so these inspired awe. They also didn't have much metal apart from Gold, and these here Europeans come dressed up in steel and led by what seemed to be a god. You can't just say they were stupid because they had no clue. Also, that massacre was a cheap tactic. The Aztecs and Spaniards had met for a discussion, and then they Spaniards had just pulled out their weapons and butchered them. The Aztecs were ordered not to attack by Moctezuma himself, so they had no choice. Steel wasn't always in the favour of the Spaniards though, since one time, when they were attacked at night, stranded on the island-city of Tenochtitlan, and the bridges partly dismantled, many Spaniards drowned because of the heavy armour. It was also the first occurence of a person pole-vaulting

Another major thing was smallpox. If I'm correct, it wiped out most of the Aztec population.

DISCLAIMER: This is all from my memory from books I have read years ago, so it might not be entirely correct, especially my last fact.

[The_Doctor]

What are they?

The first are probably jaguar wariors, but what animal does the second unit represent?

Quetzalcoatl, the feathered serpent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quetzalcoatl

[The Stranger]

Eagles... I think.

yes they represent eagles and are special units. they did reconnaisance behind enemy lines and you need to capture atleast 4 men in battle to become part of this elite

[shifty157]

What are they?

The first are probably jaguar wariors, but what animal does the second unit represent?

Jaguars are black. The skin they are wearing is that of a leopard.

The second ones i believe are supposed to represent eagles. Eagles played a huge role in aztec mythology. The founder of the Aztec capital (present day Mexico City) was told by a god to found the city where he saw an eagle perched upon a cactus and eating a snake. My memory is a bit sketchy though so itd be nice if someone else could confirm or deny this.

My only concern is that i believe the Aztecs wore their skins more as a cape (the head of the animal on top of their own head, the forearms draped over their shoulders or tied to their own arms, the rest of the skin hanging down their back). I dont know how possible it would have been to make a bodysuit out of a single skin to fit human proportions or how if they did this the warriors would have been able to take the skin on and off. But whatever. Historical evidence is sketchy as is to be expected. I think they look pretty impressive.

As to the Mayans, even they still lived in present day Mexico. The Yucatan penninsula if i remmeber correctly. So while there was more in the way of jungle than the Aztecs it was far from a predominant feature in this area. Of the three empires (aztec, mayan, incan) the Aztecs were by far the most war oriented. Indeed much of their society was based around it. It seemed they were always in perpetual war with some minor tribe or other.

EDIT: looking back at the second unit i notice that they arent eagle warriors at all. The head is clearly (although unclearly because of the poor quality of the picture) that of some kind of dog. Most likely a coyote. The body however clearly has feathers. This leaves me lost as to what it is.

[Furious Mental]

I think that the player should be able to land only a small number of troops in the New World and should be able to train only native auxiliaries. There should also be big penalties for wearing heavy armour, fighting in pike hedges or from horseback and using missile weapons in jungle. This would prevent the Aztecs simply being steam rollered by thousands of musketeers, cannon, pikemen, armoured knights etcetera.

As far as pelts go jaguars can be both black and speckled.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

As far as the Aztec armies and military units: http://www.ancientworlds.net/aw/Post/742717

There was no Aztec standing army, rather warriors were called up for specific campaigns. A basic large army consisted of around 8,000 men, but depending on requirements the Aztecs could field up to 200,000 warriors for a campaign.

The army was based on units organised from local calpulli. In Tenochtitlan each calpulli was requited to contribute about 400 men, marching under their own standard with their own leaders. There were probably several divisions below this, of 100 or 200 men.

A supreme council of four noblemen governed the army: the Tlacochcalcatl, the Tlacatecatl, the Ezhuahuancatl and the Tillancalqui. At Tenochtitlan they would all usually be close relatives of the tlatoani, and one, usually the tlacochcalcatl, would be heir apparent.

The two highest military orders were the Otontin ("Otomis" - warriors who have taken five or six captives) and the Cuachicqueh ("Scalped heads" or "Shorn Ones" - taken more than six captives). The highest military commanders such as the tlacochcalcatl and the tlaccatecatl were members of these two orders. Depending on the situation Cuachicqueh and Otontin were fielded in independent units, or as captains of 100 lesser warriors, or interspersed with the lesser warriors to bolster their morale.

Four-captive warriors were the Tequihuahqueh, which literally means "Tribute Owners" (in the sense they have a share of the tribute by being maintained by the state), but is usually translated "Veteran" or "Valiant Warrior".

Cuauhtlocelome ("Eagle-Jaguars") were members of the elite religious warrior societies - either Cuauhtli ("Eagle Warrior") or Ocelotl ("Jaguar Warrior"). Only four-captive warriors could enter these societies. Pictorial evidence suggests Jaguars were more common than Eagles, and in fact Eagle suits are only depicted worn by rulers. The Eagle and Jaguar military orders fought in their own separate units. Cuauheuhueh ("Eagle Elders") were Eagle-Jaguars who were too old to fight but still accompanied military expedition to act as marshals.

Tiachcauh ("Teacher of youths") were three-captive warriors, and a Cuextecatl was a warrior who had captured two enemies. A warrior who had taken one captive, even with the help of up to six companions, was a Telpochyahqui ("Leading Youth").

Tlamani ("Captor") was a general term covering all warriors who had taken captives, and Cuexpalchicacpo ("Youth with a baby's tuft") was a derogative term for a warrior who had taken no captives after three or four campaigns.

The army would also be accompanied by tlamemes, professional porters.

[Divinus Arma]

They kinda grow on ya. It'll be interesting to see their settlements.

[Tiberius maximus]

I think that the player should be able to land only a small number of troops in the New World and should be able to train only native auxiliaries. There should also be big penalties for wearing heavy armour, fighting in pike hedges or from horseback and using missile weapons in jungle. This would prevent the Aztecs simply being steam rollered by thousands of musketeers, cannon, pikemen, armoured knights etcetera.

As far as pelts go jaguars can be both black and speckled.

i totally agree with this otherwise the aztecs will just be another push over faction and i wouldnt like that

[Grifman]

I think that the player should be able to land only a small number of troops in the New World and should be able to train only native auxiliaries. There should also be big penalties for wearing heavy armour, fighting in pike hedges or from horseback and using missile weapons in jungle.

Except for coastal Mexico, there aren't jungles, and the Spanish didn't fight them there for the most part.

This would prevent the Aztecs simply being steam rollered by thousands of musketeers, cannon, pikemen, armoured knights etcetera.

Even though this is exactly what happened? What happened to historical accuracy? How else did a few hundred Spanish conquer an empire amassing thousands of warriors except by steamrolling them with musketeers, pikemen, cannon and heavy cavalry? Have your read anything about the Conquest?

[Furious Mental]

Duhhhh haven't you read anything about the conquest of the Aztec empire? Cortez required native auxiliaries to beat the Aztec forces, even with them having been severely depleted by disease. And if CA has decided to put the conquest of Mesoamerica in the game they may as well make it a worthwhile challenge.

[Zenicetus]

Jaguars are black. The skin they are wearing is that of a leopard.

There is a black (melanistic) color phase in some parts of the jaguar range, but I believe the standard pattern is more common in Mexico:

http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/agarman/jaguar.htm

Also, just to nitpick, I think they got the pattern colors wrong. The background color is way too orange, it should be more of a light tan. Here's a closeup. I've seen live jaguars (in zoos) and this is more what they look like:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/neguinh...ana/116106079/

My only concern is that i believe the Aztecs wore their skins more as a cape (the head of the animal on top of their own head, the forearms draped over their shoulders or tied to their own arms, the rest of the skin hanging down their back). I dont know how possible it would have been to make a bodysuit out of a single skin to fit human proportions or how if they did this the warriors would have been able to take the skin on and off. But whatever. Historical evidence is sketchy as is to be expected. I think they look pretty impressive.

Yeah, that was my thought too, but after some quick Googling it looks like that's the real deal. Check out these codex drawings:

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/aztec-warfare.htm

It most have been HOT wearing those full body suits in that climate, but maybe it added a small amount of armor protection vs. bare skin. Or maybe it's purely status display. Those guys were big on ornamental status displays.

My only concern is that these jaguar guys should probably be elite units, and somewhat rare. There is evidence that they did fight together as a unit, so that part fits into the TW battle engine. But there should probably be a lot more "peasant" types like the white-clothed and half-naked warriors shown on that page.

[Ghulam]

Aztec Eagle and Jaguar warriors look very good.Thanks BKB!

[Kralizec]

Jaguars are black. The skin they are wearing is that of a leopard.

Jaguars definitely look like that. Leopards are an indigenous animal of Africa, and can be either spotted or black (actually the blacks one have spots too, but they're less visible). Jaguars are more strongly built and have slightly different spots.

EDIT: didn't notice Orda's post :-/