Unable to attack

[bach01]

Here is an interesting quandary. I searched all the forums and the bug lists hoping to find something similar but to no avail.

I played nice with the senate always keeping on their good-side, and watched the Brutti and the Scipii take over their respective portions of the world.

Finally, the senate outlaws the Scipii and the Brutii, and gives me two turns to attack their capitals. I refuse the assignments, and the senate then outlaws me, which is what I was waiting for.

I attack and take Rome in two turns, and then start towards Capua and Segestica. When I get there I can't attack because of the Attack Ally message in the thumbnail. I check the Diplomacy and the Brutii are still allied with me and the Scipii are neutral. Strange, so I wait.

When I took Rome I captured and Eagle, so soon enough the Scipii where massing troops to take it back. They soon attack, and we are at war. After a number of battle, I beat them off, took Capua and sent two expeditionary forces to Scilly and Tinges. Things are going great until now.

Now the Brutti have attacked, and according to my Diplomacy I am still allied with them even though they are besieging 5 cites, and have attacked me twice in the field. I can't attack them, because everytime I try I get the Attack Ally message that states that I don't have enough support with the people to attack an ally, which is strange since the senate went the way of the dodo bird.

So now I'm in a bind since my plan was to do a quick rampage through Brutii land to get the remaining provinces, since they are lightly defended. Now I have to beat off the sieges year after year, something I don't like doing cause I can't attack them in the field or even sally out from the cities, while trying to capture enough Scipii lands to give me the win.

Does anyone have any advice, or a fix for this bug. That I can use. This is a vanilla RTW 1.6 with BI loaded and just player1 bugfixer applied to the baseline. So I doubt I have introduced any major errors by applying the bugfixer to to the program.

Bach01

[Krauser]

There might be a way to change diplomacy status in the Rome Shell but I'm not sure. One of the modders might now. Do you have any saves from before this happened? It's good to keep a save for every 20 years or so just in case.

[ArT II]

How about sending a diplomat with cancel alliance request??

[Ciaran]

I don´t think he can do that, for the same reason as he´s unable to attack his fellow Romans. I believe the Popularity with the people (not the Senate!) is too low. As far as I know, you can only attack the other Roman factions after you got the "Chance for Power" message, telling you that you´ve got enough support from the plebs to become Emperor.

But just how did you manage to get the Senate to outlaw the Bruti and Scipii while staying on his good side? I´ve never managed to do that, perhaps because I expand too fast (?). How many provinces did you have when the others were outlawed? And how many had they?

[Glaucus]

similar thing just happened to me. I went got the chance for power thing, but waited I guess too long to attack (?) and when I did it said I did not have enough support. couple years later I got the chance for power again, all the romans turned on me, and I took over arrertrium, arrminium, rome, capua. I got a ceasefire with Scpii in order kill off the Julii, then the scpii attack me and it said i was neutral are you sure you want to attack them? and so I think it is a problem with roman => roman diplomacy not something else. I think yer screwed, since I had to wait until the people approved of me again, and since the senate is dead that won't happen. Good luck though!

[Severous]

Can you send assassins against Brutii ? Failed assassination attempt might trigger war.

I would try the diplomat anyway. Something doesnt feel right with your siuration so maybe diplomat will be able to take actions we might not expect. Try to cancel anything positve and demand something unreasonable...try to get them angry.

Good luck

[Patricius]

I like playing as Senatorial champion and attacking the other faction - it is something that happens rarely.

I cannot see how this is anything other than a bug.

[bach01]

But just how did you manage to get the Senate to outlaw the Bruti and Scipii while staying on his good side? I´ve never managed to do that, perhaps because I expand too fast (?). How many provinces did you have when the others were outlawed? And how many had they?

I had 29 provinces when I was outlawed, and wasn't outlawed until 120 BC so as you can see I just took it slow and easy.

The last mission I had before being outlawed was to attack the Brutii settlement of Salone...which I tried to do, but couldn't because of the low popularity with the people... ie same Attack Ally message.

I do have a save from right before I took Rome. I may fudge the battle over the river crossing so that some of the army from teh city survives the river crossing. Maybe with the Senete still around for a few more turns, the Brutii will be outlawed as well and we can get on with teh bloody business of teh day.

Bach01

[bach01]

Can you send assassins against Brutii ? Failed assassination attempt might trigger war.

I would try the diplomat anyway. Something doesnt feel right with your siuration so maybe diplomat will be able to take actions we might not expect. Try to cancel anything positve and demand something unreasonable...try to get them angry.

Good luck

Tried he assasins, and no joy....killed two brutii family members, and still receive the Attack Ally warning, plus the diplomacy screen shows us as allies.
Diplomats do not have an option to break the roman alliance....so I can't do anything on that front either...even went so far as to ask for all the brutii lands over 4 turns, and no change.

Bach01

[Severous]

As Julii I killed other Romans with my assassins without downsides. It was a failed attempt that triggered the civil war...not a sucessful attempt. Im not optimistic though.

I just think you have an unusual series of events which hasnt been coded for..effectively a bug.

[Ciaran]

Could you post a screenshot of your Senate Floor panel, Bach01? I´d like to see what the respective support from Senate and Plebs is. I´m pretty sure you can´t attack another Roman faction if the support from the plebs is too low.

And yes, it´s a failed assasination attempt that gets you outlawed, if it´s sucessful, or fails with the assasin escaping alive no one knows you´re behind it.

[bach01]

Could you post a screenshot of your Senate Floor panel, Bach01? I´d like to see what the respective support from Senate and Plebs is. I´m pretty sure you can´t attack another Roman faction if the support from the plebs is too low.

And yes, it´s a failed assasination attempt that gets you outlawed, if it´s sucessful, or fails with the assasin escaping alive no one knows you´re behind it.

Here's the screen shot.



Even with a failed assassination attempt against the Brutii I can't get them to declare war. Heck they are even besieging my cities without being at war with me. I've gone through a number of turns trying to attack them but with no luck.

One thing that I have noticed is that they don't attack until they have retaken all of their rebelling provinces, which may be bringing their popularity up high enough so that they can attack.

What I may be able to do is finish off the Egyptians. That may bring my popularity high enough so that I can attack / finish off the other 2 factions.

[Ciaran]

That´s weird, I think your popularity with the plebs should be high enough for the "Chance to Power" message (you don´t need 100% for that). And even stanger, you actually can attack Rome... Honestly, I´m clueless, but chances are that this is a bug.

[Drusus Magnus]

Maybe you need more than the Scipii? If they are most popular, the people would want them to rule the world, not you?

[Severous]

Hi

You are a few regions short of the total I had when 'chance for power' message occured. Looks like around 30...I had around 33-35. Popularity with the people needs to be a bit higher I think.

I suggest a spy/assassin offensive against Brutii/Scipii regions that are adjacent to yours and distant from Italy. Find those already low on public order due to distance from capital penalties. Your spies will cause additional unrest in the city lowering public order (-5% for every 'eye' of spy skill). Assassin to destroy temple and you force public order into the riot zone (<70%) . Be ready to send an army to capture the city if/when it rebels.

Good luck.

[bach01]

Thanks for alll your help and suggestions. I think this game is a wash, as I still can't get the alliance with the Brutii removed, or attacke them without the message appearing. Sigh..... ah well, just gonna have to try again. Maybe if I try the unwashed Gauls... just to get a taste of something different.

[Viking]

Maybe you need more than the Scipii? If they are most popular, the people would want them to rule the world, not you?

Yeah, that`s it. Should solve all of your problems, bach01.