illiterate in America

[KafirChobee]

No child left behind ... behind what? The 49 nations that are more literate?

Saw this in PB: 20% of Americans think the sun orbits the earth. 17% know the earth orbits the sun ... but, think it does so every 24 hours (not every 365 days). We be smart ... we be knowings these things, we listens real goods in church. j/k (btw)

America is ranked 50th in literacy in the nations of the world. The wealthiest (well, for a few of us ... I suppose) nation, and the dumbest people in civilized mankind. Of course our religious fervor is equal to alquaedas so that must mean something? Eh?

Why are Americans stupid? 50th? That is a national disgrace. Especially when our budget should afford that every child attend Harvard or Yale or State (wtf).

It is a travesty. How did we allow it. Why is it permitted. And, why do some think it is OK?

Personally, without the GI Bill, I never could have afforded my initial college education. To think that there are 20% (maybe they mean 6 yr olds) that believe the sun revolves around earth is disturbing. I mean, I was explained "God's Plan" when I was like 4 .... you know, how God's time ain't necessarily ours, and the revolving things. Maybe, the 20% slept through ... like everything they were ever told?

Thing is, of all the modern nations ... America is the dumbest. Hands down. Mores the pity, don't you think? Especially since we have the ability to eliminate the world as we know it .......... oh, never mind Bush43 already did that. j/k (sorta)

[spmetla]

Yeah, we're pretty bad in the education department. How do you propose we fix it?
I know some of the problems are a general distain for education, no one takes it seriously in school. Should we have a final graduation exam mandatory for a diploma or something?

Also seeing as there really isn't a national school system and each state having it's own Department of Education doesn't really help. Should we centralize it more, have a standardized system nationwide.

Also there's the problems of teachers and funding, how can we make sure the money is spent properly? How can teachers be fairly evaluated so we know they're not just shamming?

As a resident of Hawaii which has one of the worst education systems in the nation I really hope for change. I'm already in University but I'd still like to see the system changed. My brother is a prime example, he can't point out most nations on a map. His use of english incorporates too much slang (I seen instead of I saw or have seen). And when it comes to science he only knows the basics. He does know though that the Earth revolves around the Sun!

How do you Euros educate your youth? Do you feel your system is adequate?

[Fragony]

You are being to hard on yourselve, there was a poll lately that show that the majority of the dutchies think WW2 started because of the holocaust, and we are considered one of the most advanced nations in the world. There are also quite a bit of illiterate 50+ people, 20% or so.

[Byzantine Mercenary]

double post!

[Byzantine Mercenary]

No child left behind ... behind what? The 49 nations that are more literate?

Saw this in PB: 20% of Americans think the sun orbits the earth. 17% know the earth orbits the sun ... but, think it does so every 24 hours (not every 365 days). We be smart ... we be knowings these things, we listens real goods in church. j/k (btw)

America is ranked 50th in literacy in the nations of the world. The wealthiest (well, for a few of us ... I suppose) nation, and the dumbest people in civilized mankind. Of course our religious fervor is equal to alquaedas so that must mean something? Eh?

Why are Americans stupid? 50th? That is a national disgrace. Especially when our budget should afford that every child attend Harvard or Yale or State (wtf).

It is a travesty. How did we allow it. Why is it permitted. And, why do some think it is OK?

Personally, without the GI Bill, I never could have afforded my initial college education. To think that there are 20% (maybe they mean 6 yr olds) that believe the sun revolves around earth is disturbing. I mean, I was explained "God's Plan" when I was like 4 .... you know, how God's time ain't necessarily ours, and the revolving things. Maybe, the 20% slept through ... like everything they were ever told?

Thing is, of all the modern nations ... America is the dumbest. Hands down. Mores the pity, don't you think? Especially since we have the ability to eliminate the world as we know it .......... oh, never mind Bush43 already did that. j/k (sorta)

Yeah you probably need more exams but I would suggest less then we Brits have!

I wouldn't say that the church was to blame for this, it’s a separate issue if you disagree with their teachings really, although creationists don't help much, it would have to be a pretty medieval version of Christianity you have experienced!

Btw Islam did use to be (and still is in most respects) a sound supporter of scientific endeavours and the advancement of knowledge (arguably they made more worthwhile developments in maths then the Greeks)

[Beirut]

...and the dumbest people in civilized mankind.

Why are Americans stupid?

Thing is, of all the modern nations ... America is the dumbest. Hands down.

[doc_bean]

America imports smart people to maintain the balance

[rory_20_uk]

Look at it this way: America is doing well (without the war the budget would almost balance).

Does it matter that many of the people in the country are very, very ignorant? As long as they can do their jobs and are happy everything else is merely icing.

As has been said, being on the receiving end of the "brain drain" means that the sall number of clever people is maintained.

Or you could do what the UK does:

1) Throw money at education. If it costs more, it must be better, right?
2) Masses of exams. That helps learning!
3) Increase the number of high grades. Ignore independant experts who say standards are in freefall.
4) If they're failing at 15, keep as many as possible in school until they're 21.

[Sjakihata]

Good solution would be to double or 100 fold increase the budget, you can do that by reducing your defence (offence?) spendings by 0.1% ...

priorities

[Duke Malcolm]

Or you could do what the UK does:

1) Throw money at education. If it costs more, it must be better, right?
2) Masses of exams. That helps learning!
3) Increase the number of high grades. Ignore independant experts who say standards are in freefall.
4) If they're failing at 15, keep as many as possible in school until they're 21.

Or appoint an entire department with the job of telling children they are doing very well and are going to be successful, literate, and other such comforting things.
Of course, half of these children are concern with nothing other than their band which they are adamant will get a big break sometime soon and whimsically fail those infamous bell-jar exams and end up doing Politics, Psychology, and Film Studies at Napier University...

[Lemur]

Yeah, we're pretty bad in the education department. How do you propose we fix it?

Step One: Break the teachers' unions. As long as our educators have the same mindset as 1950s auto workers, we won't get very far.

I'm not kidding. Every attempt to introduce meaningful reform into our public schools has been stymied by that fracking teachers' union.

[Redleg]

Step One: Break the teachers' unions. As long as our educators have the same mindset as 1950s auto workers, we won't get very far.

I'm not kidding. Every attempt to introduce meaningful reform into our public schools has been stymied by that fracking teachers' union.

I agree

The part that Kafir ignores in his rant is if parents don't care about child's education then the child will not be receptive to recieving the education, so the amount of money spent on education is mote until this problem is addressed by the parents themselves.

The government can lead you to water, but it can not make you drink from the fountain of education if you don't want to.

So if you want to fix education you first have to address the entitlement society that Kafir's generation has enabled, and mine continues to propagate.

[Sjakihata]

The government can lead you to water, but it can not make you drink from the fountain of education if you don't want to.

Sure it can. All it needs is a few strong men, a funnel and a tube - there you go, fresh water!

[yesdachi]

There are surveys like this published all the time. For the most part I think they are bs, many are taken on the street during the middle of the day, hello, most people with a brain are working in the middle of the day, not walking around. It seems like the jobless idiots are always the ones that get to represent all of us. Of course some of the surveys and studies are more valid and I have no doubt the US sits back in 50th place, our school system stinks for the masses. However, it is decent for the gifted and makes it easy for those who are smart to advance (I’m speaking in general). If you do well in school colleges and universities and even the gov. are more than willing to give you all kinds of grants and loans to attend higher education, which practically everyone needs because we don’t learn diddly in standard school.

I have never been a fan of our education system and I think the blame for the current state of education system falls square on the shoulders of the teachers and school administration. Anyone can argue that it is the governments fault but it really is not, unless you want to blame them for not stepping in and fixing things when they are obviously broken. The schools basically get money from the gov. (3 layers) and are expected to do with it what is best for our kids. Sounds good, we should be able to trust our teachers and their administrators, right? Wrong! With a few exceptions they have sold us out for their own personal gain. They have been given tons of discretion to do what’s best, they get to choose the class books, write the curriculum and basically plan out the child’s entire education and yet somehow with all this freedom to make the best choices for our children we fall to 50th place in world rankings. Wtf.

IMO most schools show no real commitment to the kids and have turned into a business to make money, and a cheep product (dumb kids) is the result.

Lemur’s point about the teachers union is spot on. I have seen reports where pedophile teachers are given fake teaching jobs away from kids (because they administration knows they cant be trusted around them) because it is virtually impossible to fire them because the teachers unions put up so many rules and appeals and such that it ends up costing more money than to keep them employed in a fake position.

John Stossel has done some decent reporting on this sort of thing. Clicky.

Hundreds of teachers the city calls incompetent, racist, or dangerous have been paid millions. And what do they do while they get paid? They sit in rubber rooms.

But, But… The US is lucky because our smart people are really smart and easily carry the rest of us.

[Sjakihata]

I have never been a fan of our education system and I think the blame for the current state of education system falls square on the shoulders of the teachers and school administration. Anyone can argue that it is the governments fault but it really is not, unless you want to blame them for not stepping in and fixing things when they are obviously broken.

No, it's too easy to blame the teachers. But it is like riding through life with a pair of blinkers on. See the whole picture. Everyone is responsible, not just one part. With that sort of criticism rest assured nothing will get fixed.

[Samurai Waki]

the US's Education System is skewed as it is, the one size fits all is not an acceptable method of educating the young. What needs to be done, is that the Child should have regular elementary program until they are 12 years old. Then they take an exam, so if you score exceptionally high in mathematics then you should be transfered to a center that specializes in teaching mathematics, if you score high in Literature/English you should be transfered to a center that specializes in Literature/English, or if you do well at say...Sports you should be taken to a center that specializes in Athletics. Your Specialty School would emphasize your skills, but also of course would have a curriculum that taught the other basic courses. When you reach 14, you should take another test to see if your still on course with your education, if something has changed, say you score higher in your Literature skills then your math, you can opt to transfer. Then when you reach, say 16 you should take another test that delves into even more specialization, such as Geometry, Physics, Football, Soccer, History, Classics, Drama etc. etc.
If you just can't cut it, and fail at school You should be given the option of joining apprentice-ships that interest you, and give you similar accredation as graduating Highschool so you don't have to work at McDonalds for the rest of your life. Then if you decide that you want to pursue say, College, or the military you would then be very proficient in the skills that interest you the most. Thats the way it should be done, IMO.

Another thing that American College Students should consider, if they just can't afford College, is forming student unions. (even though they are currently illegal in the US). But what is the government going to do, if everyone did join a Union, and suddenly tuition goes through the roof, everyone just stops going to College and Stops paying and then they would need to lower tuition to get students to go back.

[DemonArchangel]

the US's Education System is skewed as it is, the one size fits all is not an acceptable method of educating the young. What needs to be done, is that the Child should have regular elementary program until they are 12 years old. Then they take an exam, so if you score exceptionally high in mathematics then you should be transfered to a center that specializes in teaching mathematics, if you score high in Literature/English you should be transfered to a center that specializes in Literature/English, or if you do well at say...Sports you should be taken to a center that specializes in Athletics. Your Specialty School would emphasize your skills, but also of course would have a curriculum that taught the other basic courses. When you reach 14, you should take another test to see if your still on course with your education, if something has changed, say you score higher in your Literature skills then your math, you can opt to transfer. Then when you reach, say 16 you should take another test that delves into even more specialization, such as Geometry, Physics, Football, Soccer, History, Classics, Drama etc. etc.
If you just can't cut it, and fail at school You should be given the option of joining apprentice-ships that interest you, and give you similar accredation as graduating Highschool so you don't have to work at McDonalds for the rest of your life. Then if you decide that you want to pursue say, College, or the military you would then be very proficient in the skills that interest you the most. Thats the way it should be done, IMO.

Dude, you can't just lock people in like that. That would kill America's social mobility, which is a major advantage America has over other nations. America's education system, although totally crappy (I don't think I've ever really learned anything in school), allows for people to choose what they want to do, or give them the ability to change their careers.

It's not about what you're good at or what you score high on, it's WHAT YOU WANT TO DO. Because I could do very well on a math exam, but I could hate math with a passion. Nobody likes doing what they hate, which would subsequently reduce productivity, which would then deplete the economy etc. etc. Anyway I'm ranting so um.... yea, you get my point right?

[Xiahou]

Step One: Break the teachers' unions. As long as our educators have the same mindset as 1950s auto workers, we won't get very far.

I'm not kidding. Every attempt to introduce meaningful reform into our public schools has been stymied by that fracking teachers' union.

Preach on brother. They are without a doubt the biggest obstacle to meaningful school reform- followed closely by our politicians.

In an above mentioned Stossel peice, a teacher's union official actually said on camera (not paraphrasing) "there's nothing that more money won't fix".

This isnt about blaming the teacher's- many of them don't like the unions much more than I. The unions are more concerned with protecting their own interests than educating our children- that should stop.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

One of the lines I liked best in "Good Will Hunting" was the jibe about the one grad student having spent $50,000 to learn no more and not better than he might have learned on his own in a good library for no more than $50 in late-book fees.

Moral:

If you wish to learn, to educate yourself, and the resources are present, you can -- and no one can do it for you.

Corollary:

If you wish to remain ignorant of a subject, you will, and there is little that can be done to stop you. Or, as my less-than-eloquent father would say:

You can lead a whore to culture, but you can't make her think.


Parents are the answer, and the ONLY element that can set the right tone for learning -- and the tone has been set before your child hits age 10. Children become imbued with the learning values they see demonstrated. Do you read books for entertainment? Watch the news? Read maps and discuss the value of ground and resources? Discuss political strategies and policies? Work at your own continuing education? Or do you really focus your time on watching how well Dale Jr. is gearing up for this Sunday or the important doings of Wisteria Lane?

As ye sow, so shall ye reap.

[master of the puppets]

...whenever people talk about "americas people" i always feel like i'm in some seperate country! my county is the 3rd richest in the country, and the first is only 20 minutes away, but we are not like beverly hills, nah, usually we're more like hicks as we are deep in the forests but property taxes are thru the roof. but those taxes (which are really driving the less affluent people away) pay for the great school system i go to now.

i consider myself to be a well versed human and american, i am ashamed but rightly say i look down my nose at idiots, i have maps of the world tacked on my wall and a globe in the corner, an astronomy map and a 6ft by 3ft book shelf filled to the brim with stories, history books, astronomy, and even very basic theories on experiment physics on the creation of the world.

Mabey its just my school but the teachers here are oppressivly dedicated to seeing us succeed, and excluding jocks cheerleaders and assorted idiots, many of us are pretty smart.

still the school system around here is crap, teachers here are way underpaid (as they complain so much, but mabey thats just them) so much so that they mostly live in PA where the taxes are lower. but our books are usually new and i'm typing this on one of the 30 computers in out library, surrounded by information with a brand new copy of dan browns "Angels & Demons" at my elbow.

so i can't truly understand what you guys are talking about as i am a intelligent both from personal venture and from a good school. and of course the earth revolves around the sun spinning once on its axis every 24 hours and making a full revolution of the giant ball of burning gas once every 365 days.

but come to think of it, 2 days ago my history teacher was explaining darwins theory and there were a few people who had it go right over there heads, one of them actually asked "so all animals are going to turn into humans?" such idiocy just makes me want to scream.

[yesdachi]

No, it's too easy to blame the teachers. But it is like riding through life with a pair of blinkers on. See the whole picture. Everyone is responsible, not just one part. With that sort of criticism rest assured nothing will get fixed.

Parents do play a part in the education of their children, as do some others, but realistically they only get to spend maybe 4-5 hours per day (not including weekends) with them max, and that doesn’t include errands, after school sports, playing with friends, games. How much time does a parent and school age kid actually spend together? 1-2 hours a day, maybe less. Teachers and school in general have a captive audience for around 8+ hours a day. Even if you take away breaks and lunches that’s considerably more time that with their parents, and they can’t escape! Kids are stuck there all the teacher needs to do is teach! I do realize there are difficult areas to teach in but they are few compared to the vast majority of schools located in regular old middle America. It may be easy to blame the teachers, but sometimes the easiest answer is the correct one.

Teaching is subjective in many aspects but if we held them to the same standards many of our employers hold us I don’t think there would be a teacher or administrator with a job. Can you even imagine your boss saying “our goal is to be the 50th best”, who works in conditions like that? If you’re the 50th best at anything you would be out of business. What’s the 50th best restaurant in your neighborhood? The 50th best newspaper in your city? Or the 50th best widget maker? I could keep going but I think you get my point, if you are the 50th your out of business, but for some reason (monopoly) our school system is still in business and our teachers still have their jobs (that they complain about all too often).

If fixing is the goal then identifying the problem is critical and the biggest problem I can identify is the teacher. Parents are partly responsible but they have identified that they are not teachers and have agreed to pay taxes to fund schools where “teachers” can teach their kids. Teachers have been given (and have taken) the job of teaching our kids and they are not fulfilling their obligations. With the freedoms and liberties that teachers and administrators have been given to run our schools they have no excuse for the sorry state our education system is in.

If teachers wanted to fix things they could, they have the freedoms and authority but choose not to because it is easier to go with the downward spiraling flow. We have hired sheep to teach our kids to be stupid.

[Moros]

America imports smart people to maintain the balance

indeed.

Good thing I have one of the best educations in the world lol.

I think a lot of it is exagerated. In every country there's a big percentage that doesn't know the earth turns around the sun (in about 365 days). All over the world there are people who aren't to bright. But they can be hard workers and if you ask me we need alot more of those then people who know everything about the Universe nowadays.

[Avicenna]

@Garvanko: Technically the sun isn't burning because there isn't the oxygen to allow the hydrogen fuel which is heated to combust, and therefore 'burn'. There aren't any flames on the sun.

@yesdachi: The parents do play a major role. No matter how much time you spend, your parents will remain your parents. You've known them since birth, and will probably have been on good terms for the most part. Even if you see them less than, say, a teacher from school, doesn't mean you're going to value the teacher's opinion more than your parents. Parents influence a child vastly.

the US's Education System is skewed as it is, the one size fits all is not an acceptable method of educating the young. What needs to be done, is that the Child should have regular elementary program until they are 12 years old. Then they take an exam, so if you score exceptionally high in mathematics then you should be transfered to a center that specializes in teaching mathematics, if you score high in Literature/English you should be transfered to a center that specializes in Literature/English, or if you do well at say...Sports you should be taken to a center that specializes in Athletics. Your Specialty School would emphasize your skills, but also of course would have a curriculum that taught the other basic courses. When you reach 14, you should take another test to see if your still on course with your education, if something has changed, say you score higher in your Literature skills then your math, you can opt to transfer. Then when you reach, say 16 you should take another test that delves into even more specialization, such as Geometry, Physics, Football, Soccer, History, Classics, Drama etc. etc.
If you just can't cut it, and fail at school You should be given the option of joining apprentice-ships that interest you, and give you similar accredation as graduating Highschool so you don't have to work at McDonalds for the rest of your life. Then if you decide that you want to pursue say, College, or the military you would then be very proficient in the skills that interest you the most. Thats the way it should be done, IMO.

Another thing that American College Students should consider, if they just can't afford College, is forming student unions. (even though they are currently illegal in the US). But what is the government going to do, if everyone did join a Union, and suddenly tuition goes through the roof, everyone just stops going to College and Stops paying and then they would need to lower tuition to get students to go back.

Wakizashi: This system doesn't allow any freedom, and some children reach their potential later than others. I wasn't particularly good at much when I just turned 13, and now it seems that I'm cruising many subjects and gaining top marks in almost all of them (apart from the subjects where the teacher teaches things way too advanced.. uni level). Also, if you just do what you're good at and not what you're interested in, you will lack the motivation to do any better as you don't want that job anyway. On a final note. It's quite hard to score high on, say, Maths if you've just spent a few years on a course such as Drama isn't it?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The poll results sound more like innumeracy, which is more of a problem than illiteracy I think. The poll results that show that 20% of Americans have made important life decisions based on astrology are worrying.

[SwordsMaster]

That is not the point. In a nation that huge there must have been at least a few people intelligent enough to build whatever is needed. It is general literacy that is the problem.

IMO, a challenging centralised school program is key to an educated youth. Creationism should be optional in shools just as religious education, and no books should be banned (what is up with that anyway? How can you ban BOOKS in the XXI century?!?! The Holy Inquisition would be so proud...)

There should definitely be an exam at the end of the school that would determine your possibilities when chosing a career path. (If you get less that 60% you just can't be trusted with radioactive material...)

I'm familiar with 4 education systems first hand, and the results are best not when a whole course is driven at the speed of the dumbest student, but at the level of the smartest. Too tough? Thats your hard luck, study harder. And don't tell me a normal person can't get through with a decent result through any school system.

[Samurai Waki]

Who ever said anything about freedom? last time I checked the School System in the US is still oppressive and it still sucks. Meh. What do I care, if I ever have a kid I'll send him off to private school anyways. I'm just saying, that schools should specialize, if a student is unhappy and wants to switch over to a different curiculum, then by all means he should, as long as theres a greater chance he/she will graduate and serve the workforce better.

...on the other hand, we do need Janitors, so maybe having a large workforce of Idiots isn't all that bad, if they're complacent and happy, the people with ambition won't have to worry as much about being toppled over.

[Duke Malcolm]

IMO, a challenging centralised school program is key to an educated youth. Creationism should be optional in shools just as religious education, and no books should be banned (what is up with that anyway? How can you ban BOOKS in the XXI century?!?! The Holy Inquisition would be so proud...)

I believe certain books and poems of Rudyard Kipling's are banned here. Also, it is a shame he is no longer read in schools considering he was once as expected as Shakespeare...

[SwordsMaster]

I believe certain books and poems of Rudyard Kipling's are banned here. Also, it is a shame he is no longer read in schools considering he was once as expected as Shakespeare...

It is indeed. Trinity College has a good library, with a copy all the books published in the Islands, and there are so many that have the "Banned in <insert country>" on them, it makes you wonder... Its a sad thing and a shame.

[Beirut]

That is not the point. In a nation that huge there must have been at least a few people intelligent enough to build whatever is needed. It is general literacy that is the problem.

It's part of the point. Many nations have more people than the US, a higher rate of literacy, and a longer history, yet have not come close to achieving what the US has.

If the US can achieve these things with such a mediocre education system and low rate of literacy, I'm inclined to think they must be pretty damn smart.

Imagine what they could do if they improved their schools...

[SwordsMaster]

It's part of the point. Many nations have more people than the US, a higher rate of literacy, and a longer history, yet have not come close to achieving what the US has.

If the US can achieve these things with such a mediocre education system and low rate of literacy, I'm inclined to think they must be pretty damn smart.

Imagine what they could do if they improved their schools...

Well, USSR has had satellites and men in space before the US, they had a better school system, and even now, the US and many others are inviting ex-soviet scientists to work for them.

If the schools were improved, there would unlikely be more achievements than there are already, as exceptionally smart people would be just as unlikely as they are now. And not every college graduate can design a space-ship. Average Joe would still be average, but he would be intelligent-average as opposed to medieval-peasant average.

Then again, I can only imagine the amount of monitoring CIA would have to do if everybody was smart...