Value of Trade Links and Trade Rights

[Woad Warrior]

Just wondering how much income these actually gain. Also, do Trade Rights benefit one faction in the deal more than the other, and do they get just a few denarii, or thousands of denarii each turn? Just wondered because their always being negotiated over, but I'm not sure what they're worth.

[Zenicetus]

Trade agreements are very important, especially in the early game. I always try to get trade going with anyone I can find, even factions I plan to attack soon. It helps fund my advancing armies, and helps pay for the improvements to captured cities. If possible, I prioritize my expansion towards the fat, juicy trade centers like the larger cities, and any city with a port. Port cities are worth their weight in gold (eventually).

To increase trade income, improve your roads at least up to the paved road level. Bigger port buildings also provide more trade routes and therefore more income. This is why the Brutii (for example) are the easiest Roman faction to play. They expand into the rich eastern Med, and can get tons of ports opened up for trading with other factions, as well as within their own empire.

AFAIK, trade income is symmetrical between both parties. Someone correct me if that's wrong.

Don't forget that trading helps your enemies too, so use port blockades and roadblocks (armies standing on top of main enemy roadways) to economically starve a faction you're trying to wipe out. I always do that to the Egyptians before the main invasion thrust, to help balance their huge production capacity and population size.

[Avicenna]

It will benefit a small faction more than a larger faction, as the larger faction might perhaps only gain trade from one city, whereas the single province of the small faction suddenly gains a lot more income. Trade with foreign powers is very important financially, even for massive powers such as the Roman Empires in BI.

[Severous]

Trade Rights..allow trade routes with another faction. No cash is gained from from granting rights.

Trade links/routes...these generate income for the cities at each end of the route.

Jerusalem and Antioch generate huge amounts of cash from trade. Athens is I think the super star city.

In this Jerusalem case all the trade income is coming from trade with my other Egyptian cities. None has come from other factions.

[Woad Warrior]

2222 income per turn from one city, just from trade?!!! I have seriously underestimated it until now. Thanks a lot for this help!

Also, I suppose this means areas with resources you see on the campaign map are more valuable than they appear. So, do Trade Routes by see just act the same way as trading through roads? Also, how does the farm income work? This thread has been really useful thanks everyone.

[Zenicetus]

Also, I suppose this means areas with resources you see on the campaign map are more valuable than they appear.

Definitely. It's one reason playing as one of the northern Barbarian factions in original RTW is so hard. The initial provinces around you are very poor in resources, as well as having tiny settlements and crappy roads (or no roads at all). So it takes a long time to get much worthwhile local trade running. Compare that with the juicy provinces around the eastern Mediterranean coast, Asia Minor, and the Nile valley.

So, do Trade Routes by see just act the same way as trading through roads?

Well, there are a few differences. Trade routes by land are fixed routes that you can't change. They can be blocked if they travel through a faction you're at war with, or if an enemy army sits on the road (although the game AI will only do that accidentally, not intentionally). Sea routes are more flexible. The ship captains will find the best deal in the area, and can automatically re-route from a port that becomes unavailable due to warring faction or blockade. So as long as you can keep your ports open, then sea trade is a little more resistant to disruption from war. On the flip side, that's why it's so important to blockade enemy ports as part of an invasion/conquest strategy, because it can be a cash lifeline when you cut off other trade routes.

Also, how does the farm income work? This thread has been really useful thanks everyone.

I'm not 100% sure about this (I haven't played the game in a while), but I don't think you get income directly from farms. They're basically to support your population, although it may be that surplus production (if the population is lower than the farms will support) goes into the general pool of trade resources. Maybe someone else can confirm that?

At any rate, be careful with farm upgrades. It's a good way to boost population in the early game, but it can come back and bite you in the later stages, causing surplus population, riots, etc. You can't destroy farms and go back to smaller ones, like you can with building upgrades. That's why I almost never go past the first farm upgrade, even on the largest cities.

[Glaucus]

what does it mean when it says in the description for ports and docks and such when it says "number of trade boats available: 1/2/3? is it that that province can trade with that number of other provnces at most by sea?

[Avicenna]

Oh, you sure can get cash from giving trade rights. Just try to demand some cash for trade rights the next time you want to trade with a faction. Most of them will agree, and even pay over a thousand or two thousand denarii for it.

[Mithras]

The western Roman empire in barbarian invasion is a good example of how important trade rights are. The empire when you start is at war with almost all neighbors and you're economy start within the red despite the huge wads of territory you own. Within a few terms I'd sighned trading agreements with the various germanic tribes and my economy made a massive jump towards economic recovery.

[Zenicetus]

what does it mean when it says in the description for ports and docks and such when it says "number of trade boats available: 1/2/3? is it that that province can trade with that number of other provnces at most by sea?

Right; each boat represents a trade route to a single province, so a 3 boat port is running 3 trade routes to 3 different provinces. This income will stack on top of any land trade you have with those provinces.

It's not very realistic if you think of it in terms of individual ships. Big cities like Alexandria and Athens should be able to run hundreds of ships in trade. But it sorta makes sense if you think of it as just a symbolic representation of a trade route, instead of a ship.

[limitedwhole]

Trade are pretty imporatnt as people mentioned above. But its is really important to keep the following in mind...

The exporter gets 5 full trade, the importer gets 20%. This means that opening trade agreements with a future enemy may prove harmful to you if they are the exporter. Yes you will get more funds to pad your account but they will be rich!

As someone above mentioned, it also depends in the resources. If your future trade ally already has the timber and olive oil your wish to export you will not get to export them to him. However, his textiles and marble may flood your markets. This gets you only a small amount of money based upon the import. Furthermore, lets say you were going to conquer a territory that provided marble and textiles. Then you have picked up a territory that now can't trade with it's own due to flooded amrkets. The routes may change I am unsure, but the point is, don't open trade if it does not substantially benefit you, or you want to benefit another nation which is under duress.

Ideally you want to control both ends of the trade and all the resources, not split them with future enemies although that is usally a temporary expediancy.

Always, cancel trade rights in advance if you can if you are planning to make war on a former trading partner. This will cut them off from valuable income that they have been depending on to fund their armies.

Also, create strife. If nations are at war they are not trading. Let's say you are attacking Pontus. That will be a whole lot easier if you cancelled trade 3-4 turns prior to the war, the armenians, and teh scythians have an alliance against them, and the parthians went to war with their allies the selucids and so cancelled their trade rights with them. Managing to get something like this to happen will destroy a nation all by itself.

[Woad Warrior]

So, if a faction is exporting goods, it gets 80% of the money, and the receiving faction gets only 20%. So if your a nation with few resources, and arrange Trade Rights with a nation full of trade goods, then you are infact giving their economy a big advantage over yours? This is more complicated than I thought..... But thanks for all this feedback everyone!

[limitedwhole]

So, if a faction is exporting goods, it gets 80% of the money, and the receiving faction gets only 20%. So if your a nation with few resources, and arrange Trade Rights with a nation full of trade goods, then you are infact giving their economy a big advantage over yours? This is more complicated than I thought..... But thanks for all this feedback everyone!

ACtually, it's worse. I wasn't all that clear in my post above. The exporter gets 100% value so lets say the exporter gets 500 denaari. The importer would then get 100. So if your future enemy is exporting for 2000 denaari that means you will only get 400 denaari. Go to the ludis magi and read the post on trade. Its pretty good. You can ignore the graphs and arguments over methodology, just llok for the info. When playing RTW, it is really important to trade trade into consideration when attacking. There are really only a few good reasons to attack.

1) Trade resources/citysize/tax revenue
2) Key city tacticly for defense of offense
3) It is on the way to a city you really want and to leave it behind would prove to be a possible weakness.
4) Hey you need 50 territories anyways.

Always attack the key financial centers first. That is a general rule.

[Severous]

what does it mean when it says in the description for ports and docks and such when it says "number of trade boats available: 1/2/3? is it that that province can trade with that number of other provnces at most by sea?

First level ports allow you to have one trading fleet. This will automatically seek out the best export route. It will import on the return trip.

Second level ports have two trading routes. Allows two export routes to be set up..with import on return trip

Third level...you get the picture.

Port can also be on the receiving end of other cities export route(s). Thus more routes can occur through a port than it has trading fleets.

Farming ..try the single player forum..research thread where there is some detail work on farming. Farming in RTW Vanilla is more important than trade for many barbarian lands.

I suggest next time you have an empry building queue you first check the settlement detail income screen. Then add a building and watch the various values change. Ghosted out icons appear showing how it will change. Point the mouse over the icons to see the money value. Its posible to work out in advance which upgrade is best for income etc.

[Ciaran]

Just how important trade is you´ll see when you´re playing with one of the Roman factions and start the civil war. I´m talking about some ten thousand denarii income. Playing with the Julii, I´ve noticed it extremely, I went from the richest faction around, with trouble because of all the wealth-caused vices, to nearly broke within a few turns, due to lack of trade income from the other Roman factions.