The Will of the Senate - out of character thread

**econ21** · 05-29-2006, 02:18

Originally Posted by shifty157

Otherwise the Gauls in this mod are incredibly underpowered. More underpowered than even RTW vanilla.

Um, maybe I should dig out their stats. I don't believe they are more underpowered than even RTW vanilla. In RTR Gold, I fought a battle with 1 stack of Romans against about 2 stacks of Gauls. It was horrific - everyone died virtually to a man - I only won by using cavalry charges to the rear. Morale has been reduced in the mod we are playing but it gave me a new respect for Gauls.

**shifty157** · 05-29-2006, 02:42

Originally Posted by econ21

Um, maybe I should dig out their stats. I don't believe they are more underpowered than even RTW vanilla. In RTR Gold, I fought a battle with 1 stack of Romans against about 2 stacks of Gauls. It was horrific - everyone died virtually to a man - I only won by using cavalry charges to the rear. Morale has been reduced in the mod we are playing but it gave me a new respect for Gauls.

Yeah i was thinking the same thing. Thats why i say that DDWs battle couldnt have included gauls of anything above peasant status to have so few casualties.

**Death the destroyer of worlds** · 05-29-2006, 08:40

That's wierd, is my image only available to me ? There is one tiny, but spectacular difference in RTRPE. The italian spearmen (perhaps all spearmen ?) seem to have the phalanx ability. That means they are murderous in the streets.
I placed my two spearmen units side by side in defensive mode, 4 ranks deep, at the end of the main street with the two swordsmen behind them on fire-at-will. The Gauls had a decent army, with 3 cavalry units, and the rest assorted spear- and swordsmen. They charged en masse down main street and almost broke trough, I managed to just hold them, but I needed the swordsmen to push them back a little so I could compensate for my losses and link the spearmen units again into a line. Then I had to stop a cavalry charge down a side street with the swordsmen. Then it became a slaughter. My swordsmen flanking the spearmen created the 'pit-of-death', and then fear spread like trough the massed enemy troops like a brushfire. They came with 925 men, and they left with 5. I lost 58 men.
The barbarian units are very vulnerable to routing. If you can contain them and rout one of them, the rest are very likely to start routing also. In open field they do a lot better.
EDIT : I play with these campaign settings, i.e. VH/M (campaign/combat) and large unit size (80 men).

**econ21** · 05-29-2006, 09:24

OK, it's good to know how you did it. I read something about Italian spearmen being made hoplites in PE, which sounds good as I found them pretty poor before. Other players should be aware there's lots of debate on the RTR PE forums about phalanxes in PE (maybe in RTW 1.5 in general?) - apparently they can easily get in to trouble if you try to attack with them, they get out of formation and draw swords etc. From what I've read, best results seem to be keeping them stationary and letting the enemy attack. But I don't know what DDWs found.

The autoresolve question was tongue in cheek, DDW - unless we have a Lower House member leading them, our garrisons won't get a chance to emulate your tactics.

**Death the destroyer of worlds** · 05-29-2006, 10:20

Originally Posted by econ21

The autoresolve question was tongue in cheek, DDW - unless we have a Lower House member leading them, our garrisons won't get a chance to emulate your tactics.

Oh drat, I was trying to follow our house rules in my own campaign and I just forgot ! :) :) Oh well, I autoresolved at Rhegium in my campaign so now I'll call it 'even' with the AI. You will still get 2-1 kills on autoresolve I suspect.

There have been changes since I last experimented, but the major problem is when phalanx charges phalanx. They charge right into each other's formation and it becomes a chaotic melee, the so-called 'mosh pit'.
The best way to use hoplites is to use them defensively in guard mode. If you want to attack with them, best results are reached with taking them off guard mode. The triarii also have phalanx ability. You can tell by they way they hold their spears.
The whole thing is caused because they 'downgraded' the phalanx units in RTW patch 1.5 (this is not a RTRPE issue).

**ShadesWolf** · 05-29-2006, 12:53

I have had a good nose around and could i join the upper house please.

I think i need to play the mod a little before im ready for the lower house.
This is a cracking idea econ21, well done.

**econ21** · 05-29-2006, 14:28

Excellent - good to have you on board, Shadeswolf! I'll sign you up. It might be an idea to keep checking this forum every other day, as I am hoping we will have a Senate session and a Consular election in a day or two. You are free to vote on the 278 emergency motions right now - polls close 6pm UK time today.