Illegal Immigrants in the U.S.

[Goalie]

Well since my other poll got shut down. I started this one

[Don Corleone]

Still no "Gah" option. What's more, what should language skills have to do with whether or not you stay?

The big arguments against allowing for unfettered immigration from Mexico are:

-Depression of lower end wages
-Drain on social services infrastructure
-Lack of willingness to assimilate.

Your English language requirement only tangentially touches on the 3rd reason. There's plenty of people in MEChA that speak English, if only to say "This is our country now, Gringo!". That doesn't exactly strike me as somebody we should allow to stay while we deport his hardworking, industrious, loyal, yet non-English speaking cousin.

[Goalie]

Still no "Gah" option. What's more, what should language skills have to do with whether or not you stay?

The big arguments against allowing for unfettered immigration from Mexico are:

-Depression of lower end wages
-Drain on social services infrastructure
-Lack of willingness to assimilate.

Your English language requirement only tangentially touches on the 3rd reason. There's plenty of people in MEChA that speak English, if only to say "This is our country now, Gringo!". That doesn't exactly strike me as somebody we should allow to stay while we deport his hardworking, industrious, loyal, yet non-English speaking cousin.

dang, sorry i forgot, can you edit polls?

[Crazed Rabbit]

As I said before:

Secure the border, then start deporting all the ones we can find. Enough whining about how it'd take a long time. Sure, it would. But it'd also get the message across that we will find you, thousands of miles from the border and maybe years later, and we will grab you and your illegal family and throw your sorry butt on the next prison bus to mexico.

Quick deportation and harsh punishment for hiring illegals will reduce the number trying to get in. Another amnesty and half-hearted enforcement of existing laws will not.

Also, require knowledge of English to enter, only give government services in English (none of this crap that gov't agencies have to have people who speak every single language in the world), only give ballots in English, etc.

Here's a good article from the perspective of someone who's father tried to assimilate, not demand the USA allow him:
My first-generation father: Come legally or stay home

MEDFORD -- The protesters waving signs in Portland, Eugene and Alba Park in Medford might look good to you. But for me, a second-generation Mexican, and my father, who came here legally from Mexico City, the protests aren't only disturbing -- they're insulting.

Papa came here during the 1940s on a work visa, eventually married, had two children and got his permanent visa. He became a U.S. citizen 14 years later.

He worked very hard to understand the English language -- to speak and write it -- and to learn this country's history so he could pass his test. He was so adamant about being an American he allowed only English to be spoken in his home. So my sister and I never learned Spanish, something I've come to regret.

Papa's English was so good he was put in charge of a lay-up crew at a mill here in Medford that manufactured plywood. He later be came a successful restaurant owner in Texas, which he ran until his retirement about 15 years ago.
...
I'm all for the United States being a culture of immigrants -- because we all are. But with the open borders we have I resent that illegal immigrants aren't coming to this country with the proper paperwork and striving to become U.S. citizens.

To me, they don't seem to care about our country -- they're just interested in economic gain. I know how hard my father worked to be an American. If the illegal immigrants really cared, they'd take the time and make the effort to come here legally. They'd want to be part of our culture and society.

Instead they're being disrespectful to legal immigrants -- and to this nation.

Crazed Rabbit

[Devastatin Dave]

Deport and keep them out BY ANY MEANS necessary .

[Devastatin Dave]

This is how it should be handled..
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...05-10-08-01-37
Thank God there is SOMEONE in the government that's doing something about these CRIMINALS....

[Xiahou]

Another amnesty and half-hearted enforcement of existing laws will not.

Unfortunately, Im betting that's what we'll get.

[master of the puppets]

i said if they speak english let um stay, in reality my ideas a little more exact, if they've been here 10+ years let um stay, if they know english but have also assimilated into communities and brought themselves above "wetback worker" status, let um stay. anything else deport and make sure they never come back.

[Riedquat]

Question: Only the mexicians are considered illegal inmigrants? or only the mexicians ar considered criminals?

I voted, keep em. Of course I'm not citizen of the States, and I'm not mexician, but a couple of years ago I was in the desesperate situation to emigrate, legal or illegal to a country in the 1st world, not because I wish; because I need it. I never did it, but thousands of my countrymen did. Be considered a criminal for try to survive, to forge a future... is just wrong, thats my humble and latin opinion.

The land of oportunities (sp). (If you have the right biotype and speak english)

[Xiahou]

Question: Only the mexicians are considered illegal inmigrants? or only the mexicians ar considered criminals?

No, they are just by far the most prevelant illegal immigrants.

I voted, keep em. Of course I'm not citizen of the States, and I'm not mexician, but a couple of years ago I was in the desesperate situation to emigrate, legal or illegal to a country in the 1st world, not because I wish; because I need it. I never did it, but thousands of my countrymen did. Be considered a criminal for try to survive, to forge a future... is just wrong, thats my humble and latin opinion.

Need, while being understandable, cannot be used as valid justification for illegal activity. I can understand why a hungry person would try to steal a loaf of bread- but that doesnt mean we should legalize it.

[Idaho]

Let them satay if they speak english?

That's a pretty niche group. I mean how many illegal english speaking immigrants do you get from Indonesia and Malasia who can make a good satay?

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

Question: Only the mexicians are considered illegal inmigrants? or only the mexicians ar considered criminals?

All persons who are not legally resident (or visiting) are considered illegal immigrants. I am legal, I voted to deport those who aren't.

[Idaho]

No - it's all about not wanting some people. A nation built on immigration is now pulling the ladder up.

It's a running theme in US politics. The Irish, Italians, Jews, etc have all been targets of the anti-immigration theme over the centuries.

(Edited language - Beirut)

[Devastatin Dave]

No - it's all about not wanting ******* in.

Boy I just went blind rolling my eyes on that comment....

(Qouted language - Beirut)

[Don Corleone]

Helpful as ever, Idaho. Has nothing to do with depressing wages or bankrupting hospitals. Nope, as usual, those ******* Americans are just being a bunch of racists again. I guess when you hate America, the answers are always these easy. As they say, when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail...

(Only the stars please - Beirut)

[Goalie]

No - it's all about not wanting ********** in. A nation built on immigration is now pulling the ladder up.

It's a running theme in US politics. The Irish, Italians, Jews, etc have all been targets of the anti-immigration theme over the centuries.

yes, the american indians are now saying 'what goes around comes around"
and dont forget about the Chinese and japanese, they were pretty heavily discriminated against during the late 1800s and 1900s, for a time they were even banned from immigrating.

(Qouted language - Beirut)

[Ice]

Some of you people truly scare me. They should be deported and put on a list to get citizenship the normal and proper way. If the only two options are killing them or letting them get away, let them get away. These aren't hardcore criminals we are after, most are just seeking a better life.

[Idaho]

Helpful as ever, Idaho. Has nothing to do with depressing wages or bankrupting hospitals. Nope, as usual, those ****** Americans are just being a bunch of racists again. I guess when you hate America, the answers are always these easy. As they say, when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail...

If you really cared about depressed wages and bankrupt hospitals you go after the real causes of said problems rather than getting all het up about immigrants.

(Qouted language - Beirut)

[Don Corleone]

If you really cared about depressed wages and bankrupt hospitals you go after the real causes of said problems rather than getting all het up about immigrants.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have an honest-to-goodness mindreader. Not only does Idaho know how to plan global economies and solve all the world's problems, he knows what I 'really' think about things, even more so than I do myself. Wow Idaho, how do you and your ego both fit out the door in the morning?

[Devastatin Dave]

(No personal attacks - Beirut)

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

No - it's all about not wanting the darkies in. A nation built on immigration is now pulling the ladder up.

utter drivel

immigration to the U.S. is the highest it has been for a long time, despite a lack of European immigrants..

[Proletariat]

If you really cared about depressed wages and bankrupt hospitals you go after the real causes of said problems rather than getting all het up about immigrants.

Did you read anything in the original thread?

[Proletariat]

It's a running theme in US politics. The Irish, Italians, Jews, etc have all been targets of the anti-immigration theme over the centuries.

ROFL.

Ever heard from a second generation American from one of those groups? If you had, (which I highly doubt), you'd hear some of the greatest outrage since their family members actually came here by playing by the rules.

[Beirut]

Gentlemen,

WP have gone out and more will follow along with a thread locking if good manners are not adhered to.

Thank you.

[Devastatin Dave]

So Idaho can post that Americans are racist trying to keep "darkie" out, and I get a warning for calling him on it. LOL, good to see you back "moderating" the backroom again Beirut...

[Goalie]

Gentlemen,

WP have gone out and more will follow along with a thread locking if good manners are not adhered to.

Thank you.

Learned that one the hard way

[Crazed Rabbit]

Idaho, I refer you to Post#4, my own, wherein I link to an article detailing how one second generation immigrant feels about the illegals now demanding rights.

And know that those against illegal immigration are not, no matter what many say, automatically anti-all-immigration racist nativists.

Crazed Rabbit

[Redleg]

No - it's all about not wanting the darkies in. A nation built on immigration is now pulling the ladder up.

Does someone not live in reality about the issue concerning illegal immigrantion as it regards the United States?

Come to the United States and visit the border some time, to include the Mexican side of the border, then maybe you might begin to understand the nature of the debate in the United States. However if you truely believe this statement. There is no reason for futher discourse on the issue.

It's a running theme in US politics. The Irish, Italians, Jews, etc have all been targets of the anti-immigration theme over the centuries.

They have been targets of the anti-immigrantion emotion by the citizens, none of these groups have presented the problem that the southern border not presents. Most of these groups immigrated to the United States under the quota system of the 1800 and early 1900's. In other words most of them followed the rules as it regards immigrantions.

If you can not tell the difference between the two types of immigrantion and the issues involved - then once again there is no futher reason for discourse.

If you really cared about depressed wages and bankrupt hospitals you go after the real causes of said problems rather than getting all het up about immigrants.

Now the real problem is that the Federal Government and many state governments refuse to enforce the current laws on immigrantion. One of those laws requires that if an illegal immigrant is discovered that the INS is contacted. Care to guess how many state and city governments actually do this.

Then there is the small business owners who often hire the illegal immigrants because of the fact that its cheaper labor. Many construction (housing) outfits also hire illegal immigrants as workers, and the Federal, state, and city officials who inspect housing sites refuse to follow-up on the current laws alreadly enforced.

So in essence Idaho there are several concurrent and multifactet (SP) issues concerning illegal immigrantion to the United States.

Lets point out several of them.

(1) The United States is seen as the land of opporunity for many.
(2) THe Mexican government is still corrupt and does not re-invest into the infrastructure of their own nation.
(3) The Mexico/United States Border is not adequated manned to enforce the current immigrantion laws and to prevent illegal crossings.
(4) The Mexican government has activitily provided aids to those who wish to attempt to cross parts of the border that are not patrol or adequately checked because its one of the most dangerous areas to attempt a foot crossing. (Can't blame the Mexican government for this, because it shows a concern for safety, but one must understand that it does assist in illegal crossings.)
(5) The United States politicans often pander to different groups concerning immigrantion to the point that laws and agencies contradict each other.
(6) the Current immigrantion laws are not enforced for both the immigrant and the employeers of illegal immigrants

There are several other issues involved - but before one can have a reason to discuss them, one should show that they understand the nature of the problem other then a simple and rather overgeneralization sterotype answer that you have provide.

[Louis VI the Fat]

The rest of the world should show some restraint before criticizing the stereotypical trigger-happy racist Americans. Whereas those loudmouth Americans talk about shooting and deporting illegal immigrants, the rest of the world actually does it.


Australian navy opens fire on refugee boat

If Europe is so much better, why does the death toll of Fortress Europe number in the thousands annually?

And most rich non-western countries barely allow migration in the first place. In 2001, Japan granted permanent resident status to a whopping, hold on tight, twenty-six asylum-seekers. Up from an average close to one person annually in the nineties.

edit:should make sense now.

[Major Robert Dump]

Hispanics accounted for 49% of the US population growth from 2004-2005, most of this was from hospital births, not from immigration, so the number may actually be higher since all immigrants aren't accounted for. Asian population increase is in second place, with most of this being from legal immigration of adults and children rather than in-country births. No one is complaining about the Asian immigrants, anyoen care to guess why?