The Templars

[Watchman]

Given that it sounds like most of their economic and adminstrational infrastructure fell apart and was cheerfully appropriated by assorted opportunists (one would imagine monarchs in particular rather liked the idea of getting various castles and the attached fiefs under their control if possible) they would by and large have been left rather high and dry with just whatever connections and liquid assets they could salvage. Although given that the purge cannot have come as a complete surprise that may have been a fair lot.

And, of course, the military power represented by the brother-knights, sergeants and whoever. I'd imagine they wouldn't have needed to look too hard for someone who needed fighting men rather more than stupid questions or Papal and French good graces...

[Red Peasant]

So, how come historians have said that Philip and the Pope managed to recover very little wealth from the Templar commanderies, and that the Templar fleet disappeared?

Concerning the wealth, it is known that Philip (The Broke or The Treacherous) of France owed the Templars an absolute fortune, hence he had a very compelling reason to sneakily stab them in the back. This would explain why he found very little wealth, because they had lent it all to him (and various other concerns). All they had were IOUs.

[Watchman]

I understand they also partly as mortgages owned type a good half of the castles at least in southern France. Remember, the Middle Ages weren't really too much of a money economy for the most part; some merchant regions like northern Italy and the Low Countries aside "wealth" equaled "land"... And land was owned ultimately through fortifications. Philip's finances may not have gotten all that better, but he sure as Heck got the Templars off what was technically his turf (although I'd imagine he had to enfeoff most of it to various noblemen as per the feudal practice).

[Csargo]

AoM have been watching all the programs on the History Channel this week?
I've seen the one on Opus Dei and another one but I missed the one on the Templars.

[Aenlic]

If any of you are into historical fantasy fiction, a good author to read who uses the Templars as a backdrop for her stories is Katherine Kurtz. She wrote two books with Deborah Turner Harris called The Temple and the Stone and The Temple and the Crown which use the exact same questions in this thread as the plot. Being fantasy, of course, it incorporates magic and such. The two books take place just prior 1307 and the outlawing of the Templars. They help Bruce ascend the throne of Scotland with all kinds of mystical connections dealing with the Stone of Scone and the Templars, and fight an evil occultist in France who just happens to be William of Nogaret, who in the books and in real history was Philip's chief minister. Good stuff if you like historical fantasy novels.

Katherine Kurtz also edited three books short story fiction dealing with the Templars Tales of the Knights, On Crusade, More Tales of the Knights Templar and Crusade of Fire.

[Avicenna]

His three sons died within 14 years. Coincidence that it ends not long after De Molay said it would? I doubt it.

Who knows if Dagobert was assassinated or not? If he was, it would be natural for the courts to decide not to release the information to the general public, as it would show bad security and show that assassination of monarchs was possible. History would probably be rewritten, as to not show the lax security that was there.

If you read a book, Philip and Clement weren't assassinated either, but if you think about it, what are the chances of a leader of an order that was destroyed by the two of them cursing them to die within the year, and then that actually happening without Templar interference?