The Will of the Senate - Senate Deliberations

[Death the destroyer of worlds]

I'll second 5.2 if you will describe it as a punitative expedition, not an expedition of conquest. All settlements may be looted and exterminated, but not occupied.

EDIT : You forgot Massilia in motion 5.1. That's part of Gaul Narbonensis.

[SwordsMaster]

I'll second it if you will describe it as a punitative expedition, not an expedition of conquest. All settlements may be looted and exterminated, but not occupied.

Even such a thing is maybe too extreme for the moment.
I request an update of the maps in the Library. There is no way of knowing how our borders and meighbours have changed in the last few years, senators, except for those of us in the field. Which is, at least, discriminating, and at most insulting to the intelligence of those who have to make decisions without having enough information.

I propose the following, Conscript fathers:

Motion 5.3: Build a fleet. This means we need to support one. All possible improvements should be built in Italy to support a greater number of ships and soldiers.

Motion 5.4: Consolidate. We need roads. Walls. Armouries. Cities that cannot build walls, should be within 1 turns marching distance of a strongly garrisoned fort.


For our defence to be flexible, a legion must leave Rome and be in Rhegium by the end of the turn, or be in Medoilanum in the same amount of time. We need to pacify our neighbours, make ceasefires and trade rights with those who we will not fight in the immediate future.

[econ21]

[QUINTUS]: First Consul Aemilius, I believe it would be better if you proposed an alternative motion to 5.2, as that was clearly intended to be a mandate for conquest.

I would also note that extermination of settlements is an act so extreme that this house was constituted with a strict prohibition on its commission. Only reluctantly, did I consent to Carthage being exempted from that prohibition and indeed I have ammended motion 5.2 so that so severe a measure is not mandated. Carthage is a great city and a great prize - few other cities will ever rival its size or potential. To take and then abandon such a prize seems perverse.

Senator Swordsmaster, on motion 5.4, I believe much of Dalmatia is occupied by Macedon. As such I would class your proposal along with that of taking the war to Greece as a step too far at the current moment.

Also on motion 5.3, I would note that all settlements anywhere in the known world that are capable of having walls already have them in some form. The lack of defensible walls is a fact of geography, not a decision of ours.

[Avicenna]

Senator Quintus, what about Iberia? It is also a Carthaginian holding, and will be far more lightly held.

[econ21]

[QUINTUS]: I had not explicitly considered Carthaginian holdings in Iberia as a possible target. But they seem unattractive for three reasons:

(1) Distance: I believe we could transport an army by sea from Sicily to Africa with no risk of interception of our troops. I believe we could make a quick crossing from Lilybaeum to Carthage in one season. However, I am not sure that the same could be true of Carthaginian holdings in Iberia. I suspect we would have to put our army to sea several seasons and thus risk interception. And note that more than one landing is likely to be necessary, if our armies are to be continually resupplied.

(2) Threat: just as Carthage may be more heavily defended, so too it may generate more of a threat to us. For example, our spies have detected two Consular sized armies in Carthage, one recently returned from Sardinia. An advantage of striking at Africa is that we will rout these armies, ending the potential threat they pose to Sicily and beyond. If we head into Iberia, it is possible those armies in Africa will again set sail for the islands or our mainland settlements.

(3) Opportunity: I believe Iberia and Carthage are at war. It might be best to let them fight it out in Iberia, while we take Africa. If we enter Iberia, we may find ourselves frustrated by Spanish forces or even blunder into war with them. By contrast, in Africa, we would only have the Carthaginians to contend with. (The Numidians may intervene, I suppose, but the harsh geography means that Egypt's large armies are unable to cross the desert coast road to Africa).

[Death the destroyer of worlds]

Honourable senators,

My reign is almost at an end. The date is spring 270 BC.
The legate Publius Laevinus (Shifty157) and the Legio III Sicilia Aemilia are attacking a target of oppertunity and will then retreat to the river crossing near Massilia. I expect the Gauls to perhaps mount a retaliation attack, but that has no chance of succeeding.
The consul Quintus (econ21) has completed the conquest of the Cartheginian islands.

My goals for expansion have been (narrowly) completed. Massive investments have been made in trade, growth, integration and especially into infrastructure. The whole of Italy and Sicily have been covered with roads. We have a small transportation fleet, enough to transport one praetorian legion at once. Our army strength is near optimal, five praetorian legions (three official) and one consular army. Our towns and cities are well garrisoned.
Our enemies have suffered huge losses in men and land. Our only enemy with more troops in the field than us at the moment are the Greek cities. Our borders are as secure as we can make them. Our revenue has increased substantially, but the costs of our armed forces has increased even more, so yet more investments into trade and infrastructure remain of paramount importance.
On all fronts we have made great advances. This would never have been possible without the able assistance and zeal of such notable men as the soon-to-be legate Augustus Verginius (TinCow), the tribune Publius Pansa (Glaucus), the legate Tiberius Coruncanius (FLYdude) and the aformentioned legate Publius Laevinus (Shifty157) and consul Quintus (econ21). But just as I, these outstanding men have only come this far because they were carried by our most valued treasure, the Roman people itself. I dedicate my succes as acting first consul to them.

I will hold on to my lictors for a little longer, to settle the last affairs of state to my satisfaction while this noble house discusses the merits of the men who will take up the burden of my office.
And lords, it is a heavy burden ! As this is, thank the gods, a republic, you will never please all these men you see here. Indeed, sometimes there will not be a solution to problem that will satisy anyone. I wish wisdom on the man whose shoulders are strong enough to dare to carry this great responsiblity. I also call on you to step forward and make yourself known by publishing a manifesto.

I will leave you now, to settle the last details of my reign, but later on I will make my views known on the future course of the Republic of Rome, and I will give specific details on our situation


The world as we know it - Spring 270 BC

The last (almost finished) section of my final report to the senate

[TinCow]

[Senate Librarian]

Senators, while only a single season yet remains in Consul Aemilius' term, we all know that many things can change in such a time. It seems imprudent and a potential waste of time to prepare a full report on the state of the Republic until such time as the Consul has finally completed the last of his duties. I assure you that when this occurs, the Library records will be fully updated with all information necessary for this body to make its decisions.

[Glaucus]

Motion #5.2: This house instructs the First Consul to invade Africa with the aim of conquering the city of Carthage and her other settlements on the continent.

I approve of this motion, and fully support the bit invloving permentantly garrisoning Carthago after it is conquered. Carthago is a large city, and the flower of the Carthaginian nation. To take it and leave once it is crushed would be asking for Carthage to rebuild itself and fight another day. We should drive the Carthaginians out of Afrika forever, so they may never again pose a threat to us like they do now. I propose a modified clause, so that Motion 5.2 reads: Motion 5.2:

Motion #5.2: This house instructs the First Consul to invade Africa with the aim of conquering the city of Carthago, Utica, Hippo Regius, Thapsus and Hadrumentum.

From there we may choose to lay off the Afrikans, or take other settlements in Afrika.

[econ21]

[QUINTUS]: I am grateful for your support, Senator Pansa and will amend motion 5.2 accordingly. I now need one other seconder and two seconders for motion 5.1.

Senate librarian, the First Consul may correct me, but I believe this season (Spring 270 BC) is his last. You are wise to wait to see what time will bring before amending the library. However, other Senators should be assured that they may debate now. We merely await news from Legate Laevinus and any word of our rivals' moves, then it will be next First Consul who leads us in Summer 270 BC.

[SwordsMaster]

[QUINTUS]: First Consul Aemilius, I believe it would be better if you proposed an alternative motion to 5.2, as that was clearly intended to be a mandate for conquest.

I would also note that extermination of settlements is an act so extreme that this house was constituted with a strict prohibition on its commission. Only reluctantly, did I consent to Carthage being exempted from that prohibition and indeed I have ammended motion 5.2 so that so severe a measure is not mandated. Carthage is a great city and a great prize - few other cities will ever rival its size or potential. To take and then abandon such a prize seems perverse.

I agree. There is much more profit to be made from a city than from a graveyard.

Senator Swordsmaster, on motion 5.4, I believe much of Dalmatia is occupied by Macedon. As such I would class your proposal along with that of taking the war to Greece as a step too far at the current moment.

This is why I requested an updated version of the maps. I do not wish to take war to Greece, and therefore I will not insist in the occupatio of Dalmatia. I stand by my request of building a fleet.

Also on motion 5.3, I would note that all settlements anywhere in the known world that are capable of having walls already have them in some form. The lack of defensible walls is a fact of geography, not a decision of ours.

Those cities unable to protect themselves need protection, so I will amend the motion to include forts to protect those cities that cannot build their own defences.


These are the amended versions of the motions cited:

Motion 5.3: Build a fleet. This means we need to support one. All possible improvements should be built in Italy to support a greater number of ships and soldiers.

Motion 5.4: Consolidate. We need roads. Walls. Armouries. Cities that cannot build walls, should be within 1 turns marching distance of a strongly garrisoned fort.

[Avicenna]

King? My dear senators, he is most definitely not a king. In spite of the Carthaginians' difference in ways to ours, they are still a republic, if less so than ours.

Senators, I disagree about the enslaving of Gauls. Do us Romans truly want the filthy barbarians dirtying our splendid countryside of Italia and our civilised brothers in Sicily? Also, we need not destroy all barbaric structures, as these can be refined by our expert craftsmen, trained in Rome herself. I propose that we batter the Gauls into subjugation, forcing the status of protectorate upon them. If they refuse to comply, we will be justified in the annexation of Gaul, or at least the seizure and extermination of their key settlements of Georgovia and Alesia.

[shifty157]

I must agree with my son. Destroying settlement and killing its populace is unnecessarily harsh. It is true that the looting may provide us with small amounts of immediate gold but in the long run we are only hurting ourselves as eventually these settlements will no doubt be ours. Much more can be gained over time by the occupation of settlements and the generation of new tax incomes. Also this allows us to spread out the burden of military upkeep so that we can free up more funds from our existing settlements.

I do not belive in abandoning a city unless strategically necessary. If our blood has been spilled on its streets then it is ours. I will not say that the blood of our men has been given in vain. Also the Gaulish land beyond the Alps is treacherous and I would not risk crossing it several times to simply "raid" a town once or twice. The risk of a complete ambush is far too prevalent and we have been lucky so far in that respect. As long as we are in Gaulish territory we must stay within the safety of cities as long as possible and moving only in force and with a defined purpose.

At this point I would also like to give my wholehearted support to Quintus' motion 5.1. Lucius is very deserving of this triumph.

[econ21]

[QUINTUS]: I would like to speak in support of our Princeps Senatus elect, Publius Laevinius, as the choice of next First Consul. I urge Senators to vote for this candidate for three reasons.

First, his manifesto is the most ambitious and exciting of all those proposed. We have many fine members of the Lower House eager to see battle. Operations in Gaul and Africa offer the most opportunities for these members to see battle. While the initial invasions may largely be led by the First Consul, other Legates and Tribunes would be called upon to defend our new conquests and garrison our homelands. The shrewd Laevinius is surely correct to say that it is a great waste to see our large armies in mere garrison duty. Even more so, it would be a waste to see our fine generals so frustrated.

Second, Legate Laevinius's battles against the Gauls have shown tremendous tactical ability. I know we have many commanders of great talent in the Senate but I doubt any could have done better than Laevinius. I certainly blanched when I heard of the gestatae and Chosen warriors marching in their hundreds for the ford outside Massilia. And the good Legate had only a mere legion with no alae to hold them. Based on his consistent performance, I have no doubt in Laevinius's ability to strike into the heart of Gaul - possibly even conquering it entirely during his term in office.

Third, the Princeps Senatus elect has showed great wisdom and understanding on matters of grand strategy. For example, it was he who identified Massilia as a valuable chokepoint in our war on Gaul. His plan for the invasion of Africa is very well thought through. And his recent comments on the folly of the raiding strategy proposed by some only add to my great esteem for his judgement.

Senators, the other candidates are also most worthy individuals and I do not doubt that they will serve Rome well as First Consuls in due course. But now is the moment for Publius Laevinius and I urge you to rally around his standard!