Viking Units overpowered?

[Geezer57]

I am almost positive the Welsh get Mounted Nobles, so by default the Irish don't have Mounted Nobles, although I could be wrong.

The Welsh get Royal Bodyguards and Medium Cavalry, but not Mounted Nobles. Other than the Vikings (who don't get any cavalry other than Viking Raider Cav [puny melee stats]), the Welsh are the only ones that can't build MN's. Once they've teched up to be able to build Royal Bodyguards, they don't really miss the MN's, given proper use of the RB's. RB's are a smaller unit, so shouldn'd be thrown willy-nilly into melee - on the other hand, the valor up more quickly. It all balances out...

[Sensei Warrior]

I really should start a VI game to give me a refresher course in this stuff. I don't even remember the Med. Cavalry.

[Roark]

Uhh, yeah...

"Medium Cavalry"???

I fought my first unit of AI-produced Joms Vikings last night after a year of playing VI. Nasty. Very nasty. They made my Pictish berserkers look like bedwetting mama's boys...

Vikings are easy to fight if you're Irish. 2 Kerns to each Huscarle unit does the job nicely. Much cheaper too.

[Martok]

As for the original topic:
I've only bought VI to enable me to keep playing online, I've only had a few games in that era, but it struck me as the most unbalanced era of the 4....

Yup, gotta agree with you there. Not that the Viking campaign isn't still fun. It *is* the era with the biggest disparities among factions, however.

It's not like the main campaign, where the difference among factions (in terms of difficulties and playing styles) are often a matter of degrees. The Mercians, Saxons, and Vikings are far and away the easiest factions in the VI campaign; while the Northumbrians and Welsh (some would also argue the Picts and/or the Scots) are easily the hardest. And the unbalanced factor is further magnified by the fact that the VI map has far fewer factions crammed into a much smaller area. On the larger map of the main campaign, the increased number of both factions and provinces helps cover for the various imbalances that exist; VI does not have this same double buffer.

[caravel]

The Welsh get Royal Bodyguards and Medium Cavalry, but not Mounted Nobles.

By medium cavalry do you mean the Horsemen? These are light cavalry IIRC, but are they available to the Welsh? I can't remember...

I've always considered working on a mod for a more balanced VI campaign, though never found the time for it.

[Sethik]

I think the best way to balance the Huscarles is to reduce their unit size. Instead of the usual 80 man (on medium size setting) cut that number in half. This would put Huscarles on a more equal footing with Foot Knights and would make them more vulnerable to missile and cavalry tactics.

[Mithrandir]

note as a service to some patrons, I've opened a new thread here :

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=65864

for discussion on the historical aspect of vikings.

Further disobeying of the Forum Rules will be result in a warning.

-Mithrandir.

[The Grand Inquisitor]

Huscarles have sometihng along the lines of 8 attack and defense as well as fantastic morale. Add to this their relatively light tech expenses (an axesmith workshop and an armoror are that is required) and you have a fantastic unit to swarm all of Europe with. They can cut a swath through spearmen and swordsmen alike. They also have armor piercing which gives them a little bonus against all armored troops (including Royal Knights). With sufficent cavalry and ranged support Huscarles are nearly unbeatable.

Actually, its a 4 armour piercing attack and 4 defence. SiculoNorman Footknights have a 5 attack and a 4 defence plus large shield - that is comparable. Klibonophori have a way better attack and defence and are mobile. Balkan Warband have a reasonable attack (2 plus supporting ranks), and have a good defence - 3 plus large shield plus supporting ranks, and have a large frontage. Balkans will hold up a danish axe army, while hurting it, long enough for cavalry to sweep around the rear.

The beauty of MTW is there is no uber unit. The right tactics and troop mix will expose each unit's weakness.

[Sethik]

I guess it's because I was reading the stats when they were under one of my better generals. Even so, SiccloNorman Knights only have 40 men per unit so the Huscarles can easily surround them. Also arn't Balkans Infantry armoured? The Huscarles would get a bonus in that case.

I don't play that many eastern factions in early so what are Klibonophori?

[Deus ret.]

A cavalry of the Byzantines, you have to play either the Super mod or the XL mod to get them, though. They're quite powerful, with katank-like heavy armour, bows and an armour piercing attack....which makes them one of the most formidable units for the Byz. Their only setback is that they're only available in Early and High (in XL, that is).

[naut]

Two stacks of huscarles rumbling through Europe is IMHO vastly overpowered!

[Martok]

Two stacks of huscarles rumbling through Europe is IMHO vastly overpowered!

Aye; they'll also eat up half your military budget, however.

[Biggus Diccus]

The Welsh get Royal Bodyguards and Medium Cavalry, but not Mounted Nobles. Other than the Vikings (who don't get any cavalry other than Viking Raider Cav [puny melee stats]), the Welsh are the only ones that can't build MN's. Once they've teched up to be able to build Royal Bodyguards, they don't really miss the MN's, given proper use of the RB's. RB's are a smaller unit, so shouldn'd be thrown willy-nilly into melee - on the other hand, the valor up more quickly. It all balances out...

By 'Medium Cavalry' I assume you mean Horsemen? I have just finished a Welsh Campaign and I never missed the mounted nobles. Why? Because you can get +2 valour Horsemen with Horse Breeder and there is a +1 valour province close by the Welsh homelands (owned by the Saxons). At +3 valour they are much better than 0 valour Mounted Nobles.

[Geezer57]

By 'Medium Cavalry' I assume you mean Horsemen? I have just finished a Welsh Campaign and I never missed the mounted nobles. Why? Because you can get +2 valour Horsemen with Horse Breeder and there is a +1 valour province close by the Welsh homelands (owned by the Saxons). At +3 valour they are much better than 0 valour Mounted Nobles.

I often use the Yas Units Master Tool to refresh my memory, especially when I'm away from home and using a computer other than my own. It's usually quite accurate, but a few (mostly niggling) errors have crept in, and the name of this cavalry unit is one of them. In-game they're Horsemen, in the UMT they're Medium Cavalry - that's how the discrepancy came about, apologies to all that were confused by it.

With base charge of 6, Attack 3, Defense 0, Armor 2, and Morale 4, these units are emminently suitable for the proper role of cavalry: harrassing/flanking/pursuit. So used correctly, they do just fine - don't expect them to work out ideally in sustained melee against strong opponents. Their defense is too low for that. At valor +3 though, their stats go up to 6/6/3/2/10, and they make base Mounted Nobles look fairly punk (6/4/2/3/8). Plus their purchase/support costs are much lower. I like your thinking, Biggus!