units look to be moving too fast

[Callahan9119]

i just viewed the gameplay videos from mtw2, and it seems they are importing the superman armies from rtw, that can run 10 miles an hour in full armor

i know this is pre release and may be changed....but i am discouraged that the trend towards more arcade style gameplay is trumping realism...there are plenty of arcade style games of this type...realism is whats kept me hooked since stw, that said i'll buy mtw 2 anyway

hope its toned down

[Watchman]

If the ground speed is as simple to change as in RTW, that's not much of an issue really.

[Callahan9119]

i guess but i find the scooby doo running that happens when ur zoomed up in rtr mod distracting...i know its minor, but i just hope they put as much effort into great ai and gameplay as they do the graphics...and from the movie i saw these dudes were flying around the map..seemed twice as bad as rome

i still think mtw just played better than rtw

but like i said i'll buy it anyway

[Sir Robin]

Unfortunately the trend seems to be to make games more "arcadish" or "twitched."

Hopefully MTW2 will be as moddable, hopefully more, as RTW. This will allow the talented modder part of our community to make it more realistic. However the fix will probably look odd to the eyes up close and considering the amount of additional animations being added to MTW2 be even more noticeable.

Again, hopefully, CA has noticed this common complaint and made giving the sprites a more realistic speed and kill rate more visually satisfying as well as adjustable.

Edit:Well I think I might have some good news.

Upon further review look at the high-quality clip at about 1min 4sec You can see the English heading out to attack the Tumurids(?).

Notice how fast those banners are flapping in the English units on the left and right side of the gate?

It seems that at least that part of the video was higher than normal speed. So perhaps more of the vid is faster than normal speed. I know its not much but at least its something.

[Zenicetus]

I wouldn't jump to too many conclusions based on these videos. It's a promotional trailer and it's supposed to look exciting. There are some visual effects that I suspect aren't in the actual game, like ground-level camera views and shaking camera from nearby explosions. It wouldn't surprise me at all, if CA (or their advertising agency) had sped up some of these scenes for visual "impact". The real test will be the first playable demo. Then we can debate combat and movement speed.

[Ibn Munqidh]

the first playable demo

Can't wait for that, when do you guys suppose it will come out?

[CBR]

I wouldn't jump to too many conclusions based on these videos. It's a promotional trailer and it's supposed to look exciting. There are some visual effects that I suspect aren't in the actual game, like ground-level camera views and shaking camera from nearby explosions. It wouldn't surprise me at all, if CA (or their advertising agency) had sped up some of these scenes for visual "impact". The real test will be the first playable demo. Then we can debate combat and movement speed.

Unfortunately when the demo is out we can debate all day long and it wouldnt make a difference. There were lots of threads on the speed in the days of RTW demo and CA still dismissed our arguments.

If the ground speed is as simple to change as in RTW, that's not much of an issue really.

Except that it hurts marching speed too (which is fine as it is and actually precisely the same as in STW/MTW) so the march/run speed ratio stays the same when applying the changes to overall speed. Its really the runspeed that we want to have reduced without worrying too much about more fatigue from simple marching. And of course the fast speed will be default in MP.


CBR

[DukeofSerbia]

If the ground speed is as simple to change as in RTW, that's not much of an issue really.

Agree.

[Puzz3D]

If the ground speed is as simple to change as in RTW, that's not much of an issue really.

It's a HUGE issue in multiplayer. You can't pause and you can't mod the speeds.

[caravel]

I can't tell if they're moving too fast or not. I hope not, as this was one of the unredeeming features of RTW.

[SpencerH]

If the ground speed is as simple to change as in RTW, that's not much of an issue really.

Not at all. As others have said, changing the ground speed merely slows all units down. The problem is that the relative speeds between inf and cav are bizarre and there is no differentiation between fresh and tired troops. How many times must I watch routing pikemen run away from my fresh pusuing troops. Even cav have a hard time catching up to some inf units.

[Orda Khan]

There is no point going on and on about huge battles etc, etc if the unit speed means these 'huge battles' are over quicker than a minor skirmish. IMO, if CA do not address this issue, most die hard fans will quit playing and MP will be a waste of time

........Orda

[sunsmountain]

Perhaps not for you and me, Orda, but what about the 90% of Rome TW gamers (they exist, this is a fact), that do NOT visit these forums, that ARE challenged by the AI, and that DO enjoy the battle speed as it is?

If you were a company, would you cater your default speed to the 90% or to the 10%?

On the other hand, seeing as how easy it can be modded anyway, i'm sure they'll listen to our comments this time. IIRC, Time Commanders also featured the RTW engine but battles were much slower than in the release. Perhaps they just wanted to see how it panned out.

[Lord Adherbal]

IMO, if CA do not address this issue, most die hard fans will quit playing and MP will be a waste of time

exactly. If CA still didn't get that, or thinks pleasing the <14 year old community is more important then listening to what the true TW fans want (who are just basing on how STW and MTW were, nothing new) then MTWII will not be for me. Apart from saving money it would also save me a lot of time I would otherwise spend on playing and modding that game. If that vanilla game is still not worth playing (MP) then I'm not willing to sacrifise that money and time on a TW game again.

[A.Saturnus]

exactly. If CA still didn't get that, or thinks pleasing the <14 year old community is more important then listening to what the true TW fans want (who are just basing on how STW and MTW were, nothing new) then MTWII will not be for me. Apart from saving money it would also save me a lot of time I would otherwise spend on playing and modding that game. If that vanilla game is still not worth playing (MP) then I'm not willing to sacrifise that money and time on a TW game again.

I'm worried about the unit speed too, but I don't think a condescending attitude like that is helpful.

[Orda Khan]

Perhaps not for you and me, Orda, but what about the 90% of Rome TW gamers (they exist, this is a fact), that do NOT visit these forums, that ARE challenged by the AI, and that DO enjoy the battle speed as it is?

If you were a company, would you cater your default speed to the 90% or to the 10%?

On the other hand, seeing as how easy it can be modded anyway, i'm sure they'll listen to our comments this time. IIRC, Time Commanders also featured the RTW engine but battles were much slower than in the release. Perhaps they just wanted to see how it panned out.

I agree with you entirely sunsmountain, there are plenty also who DO visit these forums that are happy enough with the speed. Let's not forget though, CA increased unit speeds for RTW, there was no unit speed debate before that. Both STW and MTW had a large MP community so what was their basis for implementing the change? There are countless MP vets who quit the game due to RTW.
Already we have seen the response by [cF]Adherbal and I am quite sure there will be others too.
A speed toggle would be a very nice feature, in fact the host should have access to many settings and this has been mentioned frequently but unfortunately it has never been implemented

......Orda

[Lord Adherbal]

exactly, if they are so worried about disappointing a large number of customers by moving back to proper movement speeds, then include this super speed in the "arcade mode" option, or if they want it on by default they could easily add a "realism mode" option. If they don't do anything at all to solve this problem, then their clearly show the MP community should be looking for a different game, and not waste their time on MTWII.

[screwtype]

I agree with you entirely sunsmountain, there are plenty also who DO visit these forums that are happy enough with the speed. Let's not forget though, CA increased unit speeds for RTW, there was no unit speed debate before that. Both STW and MTW had a large MP community so what was their basis for implementing the change? There are countless MP vets who quit the game due to RTW.
Already we have seen the response by [cF]Adherbal and I am quite sure there will be others too.
A speed toggle would be a very nice feature, in fact the host should have access to many settings and this has been mentioned frequently but unfortunately it has never been implemented

......Orda

In my opinion the speed problem in STW/MTW was not so much the speed of the battles themselves but the awfully long time it took to chase the enemy off the battlefield once you had won.

Mind you, it didn't bother me that much, I liked the epic feel of battles in those games, but I can understand how CA would want to cut down the battle time for a wider audience. I just think they went about it the wrong way. The solution wasn't to speed up unit movement and kill rates, it was just to make the routing stage quicker. That could have been easily accomplished just by, for example, giving the player the option to quit the battle with a victory as soon as he had all enemy units routing, and just autocalc the remaining casualties.

The other obvious solution, as many others have pointed out, is to have an "arcade" mode for the youngsters and a "realism" mode for the buffs. Or to have a lot more options you could set to your taste. I mean, there are all sorts of ways they could have approached the problem other than dumbing the entire package down for the kiddies. But they chose not to make use of them.

[Lord Adherbal]

The solution wasn't to speed up unit movement and kill rates, it was just to make the routing stage quicker. That could have been easily accomplished just by, for example, giving the player the option to quit the battle with a victory as soon as he had all enemy units routing, and just autocalc the remaining casualties.

and killing routers was MUCH to effective anyway. If you had enough cavalry you could always destroy 90% or more of the enemy army. How realistic is that.
Atleast in MTW the routing units still fought back a little, and didn't die instantly by just being touched by an enemy soldier. And they were actualy capable of breaking through a surroundment. In RTW a routing unit has no brain and no defence, making most routing units get annihilated almost instantly. On top of that the direction they chose to run in makes MUCH less sense then how they did in MTW.

[econ21]

That could have been easily accomplished just by, for example, giving the player the option to quit the battle with a victory as soon as he had all enemy units routing ...

We already have that option.

[Hochmeister]

Perhaps not for you and me, Orda, but what about the 90% of Rome TW gamers (they exist, this is a fact), that do NOT visit these forums, that ARE challenged by the AI, and that DO enjoy the battle speed as it is?

If you were a company, would you cater your default speed to the 90% or to the 10%?

Or hopefully like me there are many gamers who visit these forums and share the same views but do not post that often. I for one agree that MTW unit speed was far superior to RTW and accounted for many hundreds of hours absorbed in the strategy of what is a truely amazing game (thanks CA). I think it is great that you guys are passionate enough to post your concerns and I hope CA pays attention to the opinion of what I am sure is a lot more than 10% of the community.

[Lord Adherbal]

I'm worried about the unit speed too, but I don't think a condescending attitude like that is helpful.

I hardly care whether I'm being helpfull. I'm just stating that if CA chooses to go for the same approach as RTW, and not revert back to their old gameplay I'll have to give up on the TW series. I hope this will be MTW2, not "RTW: The Middle Ages"

[Callahan9119]

i just want the good tactical battles we had in stw and mtw, i played rtw all of a week in mp <play alot still sp>

i just miss the good old days of rtk guys beating my arse, cursing Amp and laughing at elmo's gun armies...just seemed before rtw there was more strategy and more fun...i was quite fond of nazari heavy armies

the arcade antics of rtw ruined it for me at least

[Sabuti]

Perhaps not for you and me, Orda, but what about the 90% of Rome TW gamers (they exist, this is a fact), that do NOT visit these forums, that ARE challenged by the AI, and that DO enjoy the battle speed as it is?

Where are you getting your statistics as to how many RTW players there are, and how many of them find the AI challenging? Of those who find it challenging, what is the demographical age break down? I could see a 10 year old finding the AI a challenge, but a 20 year old? If your 20 or older and find the RTW AI a challenge, I have a couple bridges I want to sell you.

Besides Difficulty levels are there so that the game is a challenge for the best players on the hardest levels, not so some 10 year old can brag they beat the game on the hardest levels. When the highest levels aren't a challenge to good players, that's just sad.