units look to be moving too fast

[Callahan9119]

i just viewed the gameplay videos from mtw2, and it seems they are importing the superman armies from rtw, that can run 10 miles an hour in full armor

i know this is pre release and may be changed....but i am discouraged that the trend towards more arcade style gameplay is trumping realism...there are plenty of arcade style games of this type...realism is whats kept me hooked since stw, that said i'll buy mtw 2 anyway

hope its toned down

[Watchman]

If the ground speed is as simple to change as in RTW, that's not much of an issue really.

[Callahan9119]

i guess but i find the scooby doo running that happens when ur zoomed up in rtr mod distracting...i know its minor, but i just hope they put as much effort into great ai and gameplay as they do the graphics...and from the movie i saw these dudes were flying around the map..seemed twice as bad as rome

i still think mtw just played better than rtw

but like i said i'll buy it anyway

[Sir Robin]

Unfortunately the trend seems to be to make games more "arcadish" or "twitched."

Hopefully MTW2 will be as moddable, hopefully more, as RTW. This will allow the talented modder part of our community to make it more realistic. However the fix will probably look odd to the eyes up close and considering the amount of additional animations being added to MTW2 be even more noticeable.

Again, hopefully, CA has noticed this common complaint and made giving the sprites a more realistic speed and kill rate more visually satisfying as well as adjustable.

Edit:Well I think I might have some good news.

Upon further review look at the high-quality clip at about 1min 4sec You can see the English heading out to attack the Tumurids(?).

Notice how fast those banners are flapping in the English units on the left and right side of the gate?

It seems that at least that part of the video was higher than normal speed. So perhaps more of the vid is faster than normal speed. I know its not much but at least its something.

[Zenicetus]

I wouldn't jump to too many conclusions based on these videos. It's a promotional trailer and it's supposed to look exciting. There are some visual effects that I suspect aren't in the actual game, like ground-level camera views and shaking camera from nearby explosions. It wouldn't surprise me at all, if CA (or their advertising agency) had sped up some of these scenes for visual "impact". The real test will be the first playable demo. Then we can debate combat and movement speed.

[Ibn Munqidh]

the first playable demo

Can't wait for that, when do you guys suppose it will come out?

[Duke John]

The movement speeds seem indeed as fast as R:TW. They just seem to slow down combat (from what I understood from the previews) so that the battle lasts longer, but that means that we are still stuck with frantic clicking. No time to look at the eye-candy without using the pause button.

If the ground speed is as simple to change as in RTW, that's not much of an issue really.

Changing all speeds is hardly a solution as it also slows down the walking speed.

Hopefully MTW2 will be as moddable, hopefully more, as RTW.

CA has never released a tool that lets us import/export animations or models. The signs that are there are showing that CA has no intention whatsoever to release a tool for MTW2. Vercingetorix has made a tool to do so, but it is buggy and incomplete.

[Callahan9119]

guys, i'm not talking about the cinema preview...this was the gameplay clips that were in realtime from e3

it just felt verry warcraft/battle for middle earth to me...it is very upclose with the camera, for effect and to impress with graphics i can only assume...but i noticed with the transition to rome the camera felt more restricted and upclose and i couldnt get the great strategic view of the landscape like i could in mtw...i just hope this trend isnt continued...i just feel they are gonna try to lure new customers and make it even more arcady...i'm not hating on mtw2, i'm just explaining my fears, and from what i saw guys in 30 pounds of armor were running faster than the best sprinter the world has ever seen

[Orda Khan]

We could argue that it is worse than RTW simply because there is more armour. Let's hope we are wrong

......Orda

[DukeofSerbia]

If the ground speed is as simple to change as in RTW, that's not much of an issue really.

Agree.

[Puzz3D]

If the ground speed is as simple to change as in RTW, that's not much of an issue really.

It's a HUGE issue in multiplayer. You can't pause and you can't mod the speeds.

[caravel]

I can't tell if they're moving too fast or not. I hope not, as this was one of the unredeeming features of RTW.

[SpencerH]

If the ground speed is as simple to change as in RTW, that's not much of an issue really.

Not at all. As others have said, changing the ground speed merely slows all units down. The problem is that the relative speeds between inf and cav are bizarre and there is no differentiation between fresh and tired troops. How many times must I watch routing pikemen run away from my fresh pusuing troops. Even cav have a hard time catching up to some inf units.

[CBR]

I wouldn't jump to too many conclusions based on these videos. It's a promotional trailer and it's supposed to look exciting. There are some visual effects that I suspect aren't in the actual game, like ground-level camera views and shaking camera from nearby explosions. It wouldn't surprise me at all, if CA (or their advertising agency) had sped up some of these scenes for visual "impact". The real test will be the first playable demo. Then we can debate combat and movement speed.

Unfortunately when the demo is out we can debate all day long and it wouldnt make a difference. There were lots of threads on the speed in the days of RTW demo and CA still dismissed our arguments.

If the ground speed is as simple to change as in RTW, that's not much of an issue really.

Except that it hurts marching speed too (which is fine as it is and actually precisely the same as in STW/MTW) so the march/run speed ratio stays the same when applying the changes to overall speed. Its really the runspeed that we want to have reduced without worrying too much about more fatigue from simple marching. And of course the fast speed will be default in MP.


CBR

[sunsmountain]

I wish the speed could be modded, so everybody could play it at their own speed. Shouldn't be too hard. MTW had a sliding speed bar. RTW has only 3 speeds, but the marching/charging speeds can be set to any value. Those values SHOULD be changeable in the Game Options menu.

[Orda Khan]

There is no point going on and on about huge battles etc, etc if the unit speed means these 'huge battles' are over quicker than a minor skirmish. IMO, if CA do not address this issue, most die hard fans will quit playing and MP will be a waste of time

........Orda

[sunsmountain]

Perhaps not for you and me, Orda, but what about the 90% of Rome TW gamers (they exist, this is a fact), that do NOT visit these forums, that ARE challenged by the AI, and that DO enjoy the battle speed as it is?

If you were a company, would you cater your default speed to the 90% or to the 10%?

On the other hand, seeing as how easy it can be modded anyway, i'm sure they'll listen to our comments this time. IIRC, Time Commanders also featured the RTW engine but battles were much slower than in the release. Perhaps they just wanted to see how it panned out.

[Lord Adherbal]

IMO, if CA do not address this issue, most die hard fans will quit playing and MP will be a waste of time

exactly. If CA still didn't get that, or thinks pleasing the <14 year old community is more important then listening to what the true TW fans want (who are just basing on how STW and MTW were, nothing new) then MTWII will not be for me. Apart from saving money it would also save me a lot of time I would otherwise spend on playing and modding that game. If that vanilla game is still not worth playing (MP) then I'm not willing to sacrifise that money and time on a TW game again.

[Orda Khan]

Perhaps not for you and me, Orda, but what about the 90% of Rome TW gamers (they exist, this is a fact), that do NOT visit these forums, that ARE challenged by the AI, and that DO enjoy the battle speed as it is?

If you were a company, would you cater your default speed to the 90% or to the 10%?

On the other hand, seeing as how easy it can be modded anyway, i'm sure they'll listen to our comments this time. IIRC, Time Commanders also featured the RTW engine but battles were much slower than in the release. Perhaps they just wanted to see how it panned out.

I agree with you entirely sunsmountain, there are plenty also who DO visit these forums that are happy enough with the speed. Let's not forget though, CA increased unit speeds for RTW, there was no unit speed debate before that. Both STW and MTW had a large MP community so what was their basis for implementing the change? There are countless MP vets who quit the game due to RTW.
Already we have seen the response by [cF]Adherbal and I am quite sure there will be others too.
A speed toggle would be a very nice feature, in fact the host should have access to many settings and this has been mentioned frequently but unfortunately it has never been implemented

......Orda

[Lord Adherbal]

exactly, if they are so worried about disappointing a large number of customers by moving back to proper movement speeds, then include this super speed in the "arcade mode" option, or if they want it on by default they could easily add a "realism mode" option. If they don't do anything at all to solve this problem, then their clearly show the MP community should be looking for a different game, and not waste their time on MTWII.

[A.Saturnus]

exactly. If CA still didn't get that, or thinks pleasing the <14 year old community is more important then listening to what the true TW fans want (who are just basing on how STW and MTW were, nothing new) then MTWII will not be for me. Apart from saving money it would also save me a lot of time I would otherwise spend on playing and modding that game. If that vanilla game is still not worth playing (MP) then I'm not willing to sacrifise that money and time on a TW game again.

I'm worried about the unit speed too, but I don't think a condescending attitude like that is helpful.

[Hochmeister]

Perhaps not for you and me, Orda, but what about the 90% of Rome TW gamers (they exist, this is a fact), that do NOT visit these forums, that ARE challenged by the AI, and that DO enjoy the battle speed as it is?

If you were a company, would you cater your default speed to the 90% or to the 10%?

Or hopefully like me there are many gamers who visit these forums and share the same views but do not post that often. I for one agree that MTW unit speed was far superior to RTW and accounted for many hundreds of hours absorbed in the strategy of what is a truely amazing game (thanks CA). I think it is great that you guys are passionate enough to post your concerns and I hope CA pays attention to the opinion of what I am sure is a lot more than 10% of the community.

[Lord Adherbal]

I'm worried about the unit speed too, but I don't think a condescending attitude like that is helpful.

I hardly care whether I'm being helpfull. I'm just stating that if CA chooses to go for the same approach as RTW, and not revert back to their old gameplay I'll have to give up on the TW series. I hope this will be MTW2, not "RTW: The Middle Ages"

[Callahan9119]

i just want the good tactical battles we had in stw and mtw, i played rtw all of a week in mp <play alot still sp>

i just miss the good old days of rtk guys beating my arse, cursing Amp and laughing at elmo's gun armies...just seemed before rtw there was more strategy and more fun...i was quite fond of nazari heavy armies

the arcade antics of rtw ruined it for me at least

[Duke John]

I hardly care whether I'm being helpfull. I'm just stating that if CA chooses to go for the same approach as RTW, and not revert back to their old gameplay I'll have to give up on the TW series. I hope this will be MTW2, not "RTW: The Middle Ages"

I agree 100%.

And I hope that more people start to see that CA's modding support is practically non-existent. They had a complete campaign and battle editor hidden in the exe and only the latter did they make public with the second patch. They still refuse to release a model/animation importer/exporter after almost 2 years. If they continue this then modding M2TW will be an even bigger struggle.

[Lorenzo_H]

That video was probably sped up on purpose to fit more into the video and not make it boringly long.

[Duke John]

I doubt it.

But perhaps this is just the way CA has decided to go. TW is starting to look more and more like a RTS: lots of relatively insignificant 10 minute battles, pumping out units (new feature that lets you recruit up to 6 units per turn). There are no peasants gathering resources, but the new merchant agent is kind of like that as he can claim resources (trade). Turns instead of years to reduce the length of a complete game. Everything seems to be geared towards a quick and "thrilling" experience.

[lars573]

I can only hope that the unit speed is exactly like RTW. They finally fixed the slow plodding pace of STW and MTW battles. Which I couldn't stand and never played much.

[Wandarah]

agreed. the yawn fest of endless 2 hour battles certainly wasnt my cup of tea. that said, the 3 minute battles that RTW sometimes (not always) bought to the table also annoyed me.

hopefully this is somewhere in the middle. i like the speed of EB battles personally.

[Lord Adherbal]

the yawn fest of endless 2 hour battles certainly wasnt my cup of tea. that said, the 3 minute battles that RTW sometimes (not always) bought to the table also annoyed me.

I can only hope that the unit speed is exactly like RTW. They finally fixed the slow plodding pace of STW and MTW battles.

that's nonsense. In MTW the AI attacked with multiple stacks at once so you had to fight off 40-50 units in one battle. That's why they lasted long, not because of the realistic movement speed. Actual fights never took more then a couple of minutes. MP only took long because of the skirmish phase.

I guess I'm supposed to respect other people's oppinions, but IMO if you thought MTW/STW were too slow you shouldn't be playing TW games. But apparently CA itself agreed with you.