London stone

[English assassin]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4997470.stm

There is something very London about this stone, probably thousands of years old, by legend central to the survivial of the city, and presently tucked away in a sports shop.

Just a whimsical story I thought should be shared.

[matteus the inbred]

Random, I'd never heard of it. And I have an MA in Medieval London studies...call myself a history student, huh!

Perhaps we should now use it for coronations instead of the Stone of Scone, which is after all Scottish and ought to stay in Scotland...

[Mikeus Caesar]

Heheh, read the comments. As it gets down to the bottom, it turns into an argument with various countries asking for their relics back. Some guy in Edinburgh wants the Stone of Scone back, while the last person is 'Zorba' from Greece, and he wants his marbles back.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Lots of Puma stuff in English stores?

I love Puma...

[ZombieFriedNuts]

Its strange what a lump of limestone can inspire

[matteus the inbred]

Heheh, read the comments. As it gets down to the bottom, it turns into an argument with various countries asking for their relics back. Some guy in Edinburgh wants the Stone of Scone back, while the last person is 'Zorba' from Greece, and he wants his marbles back.

The Stone of Scone thing is funny...we sort of did give it back in 1996 (it having been 'stolen' by a bunch of Scottish students in 1950), but we keep it in the British Army HQ in Edinburgh and still ceremonially sit on it for coronations and things (or rather, it will presumably be sat on at the next coronation). So, under the pretense that it's now a unified British monarchy, English monarchs still sit upon Scotland's ancient rock. If it's the real one, at which point some accounts go completely mad as to whether it is or not, whether the Templars are involved, and probably conclude that aliens used it to take Elvis back to his home planet.
Terry Pratchett uses all this very amusingly in the novel The Fifth Elephant.

I'm with Zombie on this...people are funny about rocks.

[Red Peasant]

They are not English, but British monarchs. I don't think there has been an English monarch since Harold.

[matteus the inbred]

I know. They're Scottish monarchs too! Even the Stuarts sat on the Stone during their coronations, which took place in England...

[Reverend Joe]

Can we have our Stone of Scone back please?
Anon, Edinburgh

You have - it is in Edinburgh Castle
John Thurm, Manchester

No it's not - that's a fake. I've got it.
Pete, Fife

(Oh- and that Zorba wasn't me. I dunno who it was.)

I know. They're Scottish monarchs too! Even the Stuarts sat on the Stone during their coronations, which took place in England...

No, they aren't... the Scottish monarchs packed up and left after Parliment decided it didn't like a catholic on the throne. The new monachs are the Hanoverians.

So... even though she isn't technically a Saxon or an Angle, Elisabeth is still a German.

[Ja'chyra]

Pfah, it's a rock, it's not even an amusing shape either

[matteus the inbred]

No, they aren't... the Scottish monarchs packed up and left after Parliment decided it didn't like a catholic on the throne. The new monachs are the Hanoverians.

So... even though she isn't technically a Saxon or an Angle, Elisabeth is still a German.

gah, one more clarification, then I give up. I did not mean that they are genetically Scottish, I meant that they are now the monarchs of Scotland as well since the Act of Union. However, even genetically Scottish monarchs did not 'return' the Scone to Scotland, so to speak, and still insisted on sitting on it during their coronations in England.

I wonder if Ken Livingston will insist on sitting on the London Stone if he gets to be Mayor again?

[Justiciar]

Can we have our shipyards back?
Paddy, Liverpool

[Duke Malcolm]

gah, one more clarification, then I give up. I did not mean that they are genetically Scottish, I meant that they are now the monarchs of Scotland as well since the Act of Union. However, even genetically Scottish monarchs did not 'return' the Scone to Scotland, so to speak, and still insisted on sitting on it during their coronations in England.

Perhaps you should read history. The Scottish Kings took the throne of England in 1603 after the death of Elizabeth I. After that, Scottish Kings have been Kings of England as well. The Act of Union only merged countries and gave us a united route for passing the crown down.

And the Monarch has not been German since King George I, in 1714. Saxe-Coburg and Gotha was a name taken from Prince Albert, Queen Victoria decided her children would be of that house, not Hanover. Windsor was chosen because it isn't German. To call the royals german because of Prince Albert or King George I is silly, they should be Scottish from King James VI & I (from whom George I is descended, Great Grandson, methinks) or from the late Queen mother, who was also Scottish.

And as for the Stone of Scone (aka Stone of Destiny), there is a prophecy about that in my signature. Which proved true in 1603...

[matteus the inbred]

sigh. I have BA and MA in history. Unfortunately in Mediaeval Studies rather than the 16th/17th century. So thank you for the corrections Duke, it is always worth being reminded that you should look before you leap, and check before you open your mouth, lest you insert a foot in it!

[KukriKhan]

Thanks for the story English Assassin, and the discussion, fellas.

How very... magical. (I almost wrote "How very British", then I remembered the Pillars of Satan, Dome of the Rock, Waling Wall, and other revered rocks; I guess you're right: folks do get attached to their stones and bones.).

[Reverend Joe]

And the Monarch has not been German since King George I, in 1714. Saxe-Coburg and Gotha was a name taken from Prince Albert, Queen Victoria decided her children would be of that house, not Hanover. Windsor was chosen because it isn't German. To call the royals german because of Prince Albert or King George I is silly, they should be Scottish from King James VI & I (from whom George I is descended, Great Grandson, methinks) or from the late Queen mother, who was also Scottish.

I still say they're German. Mostly to piss off the British. I'm half-Irish, so it's my duty.

[Reverend Joe]

Thanks for the story English Assassin, and the discussion, fellas.

How very... magical. (I almost wrote "How very British", then I remembered the Pillars of Satan, Dome of the Rock, Waling Wall, and other revered rocks; I guess you're right: folks do get attached to their stones and bones.).

And for good reason- some wierd, funky stuff is attributed to stones and bones.

Just as an example, the grave of Timur the Lame supposedly had a curse placed on it, which declared that any man who discovered his frave would bring his country to ruin; that a terrible new horde would be unleashed on his homeland.

Soviet archaeologists finally discovered it in 1941- on the day before Operation Barbarossa was launched. Just a little spooky.

[Kanamori]

Dang, I miss London. So much history stuffed into a small area. Not to mention sitting smugly in front of the yellow line on the tube, for the benefit of the tourists in Knightsbridge or King's Cross St. Pancras. Most definitely, it's an enchanting city, and has such a stone in such an odd place. I may have even been to the store, but I cannot recall my entire journery down cannon st. -- darned pubs!

[GoreBag]

To call the royals german because of Prince Albert or King George I is silly, they should be Scottish from King James VI & I (from whom George I is descended, Great Grandson, methinks)

The Stuarts were Normans. Scotland hasn't had a Scottish king in a very long time.

[Duke Malcolm]

The Stuarts were Normans. Scotland hasn't had a Scottish king in a very long time.

Really? I did not know that. Is there any where I could, per chance, find out more. Perhaps matteus the inbred could help, medieval history is his speciality, after all?

[matteus the inbred]

god, after my performance in this thread I wouldn't necessarily trust my opinion!!

Luckily, however, we don't have to trust my opinion. A wee bit of research suggests that they were indeed descended from Breton and Norman nobility as vassals of the Lords of Dol and Combourg, and they moved to the British Isles under Henry I. They supported Queen Matilda's uncle David I of Scotland during the Anarchy of Stephen and were High Stewards of Scotland sometime after 1141 prior to becoming regents and then rulers of Scotland under Robert II (see http://www.royalhouseofstewart.org.uk/kings.htm). The Stewarts proper took the throne in 1371 when David II died childless, as they had married into the Bruce family during the period of the main wars against Edwards I and II.

So there you go. It has indeed been a very long time since the Scots had a Scottish king, but I suppose it's been even longer since England had an English one?!? The last king of the line of Kenneth MacAlpine died in 1286, 220 years after England's last English king was killed.

[InsaneApache]

Don't MacAlpine build motorways?

[matteus the inbred]

Don't MacAlpine build motorways?

Kenneth McAlpine was also the name a racing driver back in the 50s, perhaps it comes from there...

Cináed mac Ailpín, if you prefer. I've seen it spelt McAlpin as well. Medieval chroniclers tended to spell stuff based on how they felt like spelling it that particular day...