Your reaction to a new "feature"

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Ok, the title was a little misleading. A quick poll here.

We haven't got everything figured out yet for sure, but one option that might be unavoidable would be that with some of the new changes introduced with the official 1.5 patch we might have to have a building that caused a CTD if the player clicked on it (in the town view at the center bottom of the screen). This is simply awful, and no one is happy about it, and it just plain sucks, and we don't want to have to have it, but *if* we find it unavoidable, how much of a pain or potential game killer would the fans find it?

A few options could exist - but one that makes the most sense would be to clearly label it so that you'd know not to click on it (right click - that would normally bring up the building description). This is an example I made a week or so ago somewhat jokingly:



But it illustrates one option. We maybe could even make it look more "ancient" (heck, even could possibly make it look a unique way for each culture group if we wanted - or someone even suggested making it look like a Windows logo to illustrate that it would be a quick return to desktop).

To be honest, in testing the mod for many different things, I actually might like something like this - that could instantaneously take me back to the desktop and end the game with no harm (as long as it was saved). But that's me, thinking from a modder's point of view. Do you think it would be a big problem? The thing we would have to give up probably if we had to absolutely avoid it would probably be the complex recruitment system we have. The CTD itself is caused by the 1.5 build trying to pull up building recruitment to show you what units are available in the building, but if there are more than 8 building conditionals for any unit that would be shown there, a CTD then occurs instantly. We have many government and reform building conditionals that are needed for the units unfortunately ("fortunately" prior to 1.5).

[Reverend Joe]

Exactly which building are we talking about here? Because if it is a building that requires a description to understand what the hell it's supposed to be, we're kinda screwed on this one.

But, if we can get by without a description, there should be no problem.

I would kinda need to know this before voting.

[fallen851]

Does this mean we wouldn't be able to click on any building or just the one with the skull (or whatever you decided it to look like) emblem?

Doesn't seem like a very big deal to me... a slight annoyance, but worth it for the 1.5 port. Why didn't it happen in 1.2?

How many other CTD's are there?

[abou]

So if I understand you correctly, this building assists in the execution of EB's complex recruitment in 1.5 and therefore will probably be present in every city from the start. The only problem is that for whatever scripting tricks it does to achieve the complex recruitment, accessing it causes the crash. I don't really see this as a big deal; logically it appears as no more than a necessary work-around to a problem caused by the 1.5 engine - one that will probably still be present if the team or an independent group considers a move to 1.6.

I say go for it, but somewhere on the website and forums leave an explanation of who-what-when-where-why. Besides, like you said, Teleklos, it might have a practicality benefit to it.

At least some poor fool can't accidently destory it.

[Yeknodathon]

How about allowing the creation of new buildings to reflect the government and reform building conditionals that are needed for the new units rather than grouping all the units into the one building? After all, a reform would need to take some time to be carried out and the time taken to create a new building may be short to reflect the current infrastructure?

[Reverend Joe]

Oh, man- I thought this poll was in EBH...

I gotta lay off for a while.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

-The problem didn't appear in 1.2, it is the result of a new feature that was added in the 1.5 patch.
-This is the only current CTD we know of in our build.
-If we had unlimited building complexes, we might be able to work it in where we didn't need the building conditionals, and right now blacksnail is working hard to find a way around the problem (and he might be able to - it's still in progress), but I'm just asking would this be a big obstacle if we are unable to figure another way around it.
-You would not need to see the description of it for it to function. One way it might work is to move unit recruitment inside this new 'invisible' building and then use building requirements in it to reference the MIC level you would build. You could see the MIC, and the description, but the units available wouldn't be visible in it (but they have been messed up even in 1.2 in EB, so this is not a new thing that we lose by moving recruitment into the 'CTD building').

[Duke John]

or someone even suggested making it look like a Windows logo to illustrate that it would be a quick return to desktop

"Return to Desktop"

Classic

[Dooz]

Even though the MIC browser's unit recruitment part was messed up, I'd still rather have it be visible. It's still possible to try and figure out what gov. corresponds to what unit through it, although it's all poopy. So I'd kind of rather have the units still show in the MIC instead of not show at all within the new CTD building.

Unless I'm misunderstanding something and all is well. I'm still not exactly sure which building is actually the screwey one...

Anyhoo, extatic to hear that this is the only CTD in the build. I was getting really worried after a somewhat lack of updates and some disturbing posts about team members disappearing and whatnot. Can't wait for the release!

[Yun Dog]

must not click ... gah....


cant stop....


need to click little skull

cant control hand ...

mouse moving over skull...

<click>

[Radier]

No big deal for me. Put the skull there! Yaaarr!

But hey, is it possible to make the skull-icon as gray as the background/interface? Who would rightclick at a invicible building?
Or is leftclicking also not allowed on the building?

[Simmons]

I choose "Probably not a bother, and might even be nice for quick exits"

Gameplay is what is important if it means I have to change my habbits then fine by me. not that remembering to not right click on the skull sounds all that hard

[stalin]

Does that mean that we won't be able to view unit recruitment in the building browser either?

[Geoffrey S]

or someone even suggested making it look like a Windows logo to illustrate that it would be a quick return to desktop

Please, this one. It's brilliant!

If it's what it takes to play EB as it was meant, fine by me, and I think the relatively complex government system is worth it. I mean, we have to click on the advisor every time we start anyway so having an icon that we shouldn't click on isn't such a huge step away.

[Obelics]

i vote for the second (probably etc. but i go ahead and continue to play)
anyway if there is no possibility to fix this, id like the option of a game-exit, but no like the skull icon, i think is better a grey icon or a sort of windows icon that say "return to desktop"

im not a modder, so i dont understand nothink of modding the game, but there really isn't a way of fix that?

[jerby]

or someone even suggested making it look like a Windows logo to illustrate that it would be a quick return to desktop).

the game-crash button is a microsoft logo? sounds liek we got a mac-fan in our midst

[edyzmedieval]

Do I see it useful? I mean, sometimes, I have to exit fast. I just click the Windows Logo and I exit.

I won't bother really. Only if there was some cool naked girl as a picture and I can't see it.

[Cheexsta]

Go for it I'll probably end up clicking it anyway, but it shouldn't be any bother IMHO, especially if you can get a printable recruitment guide happening.

Good to see the CTD's are being stamped out

Edit: something I was just thinking, perhaps with specific buildings you could say in the description that it enables X unit when you have a minimum of whichever MIC level. For example, if you have a unit that requires a farm building, the first line in the farm building's description (after the English translation of its name, of course) you could state that it allows the the recruitment of certain units.

The lack of description for the building will be annoying, especially if you're like me and like to right-click on buildings to see what they do *before* you build them, but we'll get used to it...

[Rodion Romanovich]

CTDs don't matter as much in 1.5 because the load-save bug is gone, so apart from taking some time to relaunch the game it won't destroy a campaign in any way, so I think it's ok.

[L'Impresario]

Hmm, could it be made that the building's description appear as floating text when hovering the mouse upon it?

[Simmons]

Please delete (not relevant)

[Fubar]

It would be really cool to have a windows logo to exit the game right away. That is a really good idea :D

[paullus]

So could you still right click on it in the construction menu, or is it the sort of building you have from the start? It really doesn't sound like a big problem at all, and if settling with a windows logo (and perhaps a hovering text--that sounded like a good idea) would get 1.5 out sooner, I'm perfectly happy with the kinda goofball building pic.

[PseRamesses]

I wouldn´t care if this was implemented in 1.5 as long as know what to do and the desktop icon idea sounds informative and correct enough.

[Dayve]

As long as it's clearly labeled, i wouldn't care at all.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Currently the building doesn't exist, but the problem occurs in the MIC buildings now (since that is where unit recruitment takes place). I've played a few campaigns and you could still build the MIC's (right click on them in the building construction menu) or even move them around in the building queue, but you couldn't left click on them to get the description or you will get a CTD.

We could still theoretically (haven't done it yet) retain MIC's - with the descriptions, and having them affect unit recruitment the way the currently do (i.e., you get better units with more advanced MIC's), but the actual recruitment lines would go into this "CTD building" that would be indestructable and always present and have some special icon. If it was invisible though (the icon) it would possibly cause more problems - it might accidently be clicked on. If we go this route, we might try another poll for exactly how to do the icon (skull, windowsish symbol, invisible, etc.). Again, blacksnail is working feverishly to figure out a way around this, and we might be able to make it work where this isn't necessary at all, but it is very promising to see that there is not much worry among the fans if we do have to have a building that does cause CTD's when you click on it (as long as it's clear that it would happen).

In all the testing I've done, btw, there does not appear to be any adverse problems as a result of exiting the game this way. It's just absolutely instantaneous. Unit recruitment still works. You could still even build MIC's that have this problem (currently - but that is too risky: to leave a CTD like this in a building you have to left click in the browser to build, but can't right click for fear of a CTD). It all just happens because CA made the unit recruitment buildings now link to the units themselves when you click on their name (in 1.5).

[stalin]

How do rtr get around this&#180;, they have their auxilla Zor thing?

[edyzmedieval]

Yeap, they have ZoR too.

ZoR = Zone of Recruitment
Just like Spartans in vanilla RTW, you could only recruit them in Sparta.

[stalin]

But do they have the same crashes? cos if not maybe it's the way to go

[Reverend Joe]

Just make it a little red button. No pop-up text, no explanation, no nothing. Just a little red button.