Leiden university

[Brutus]

Mainly I was curious how well Leiden stands in quality when compared to other universities in Holland and abroad when it comes to history. Things like the quality of the teaching, the resources available, and the general level of the students. As I said, I've visited Leiden twice and it left a good impression, but it's always hard to tell since those visits are aimed at convincing people that Leiden's the place to be.

Well, of course my experience with other universities is limited. One thing you should ask yourself is what you want out of the study of History, as different universities offer different specialisations. For example, Utrecht is good for Early Medieval history, which isn't actually teached at Leiden University.

Currently you can study (after your first year, which is just general stuff):
-Ancient history (not my cup of tea, Amsterdam might be better. We however do have the largest Archeology faculty of the country as well)
-Medieval History (my own field. It generally covers the period between 1350 and 1570, concentrating heavily on the Netherlands.)
-Early Modern History (covering the period of 1500-1870, worldwide)
-Modern History (covering the period 1870-present, worldwide)
-"Vaderlandse Geschiedenis" (History of the Fatherland/Dutch History. Covers the area of the Modern Netherlands in the period 1568-present. Lots of stuff about the Revolt, the Republic, Verzuiling, etc.)
-History of Migration (Which is, I believe, Leiden-specific)
-History of European Expansion (Good place to study this, considering the large amount of material available on especially Expansion in (South-)East-Asia. Much fun if you like the VOC or the Dutch Indies)
-American History (Either Amsterdam or Utrecht might be better)
-Social History (They specialize in this stuff in Rotterdam)
-Economic History (Pretty good, but remember that Leiden doesn't have a faculty of Economics)
-Maritime History (Again Leiden-specific. More stuff about the VOC)
-Military History (I'm pretty sure for this, Leiden is not really the place to be. Don't know where it is better, though)

The quality of teaching is generally pretty good, of course depending on the teacher you get. If you are looking for well known personalities in the field of History, Leiden is apretty neat place to go. Admittedly, we don't have Maarten van Rossem (who is in Utrecht), but we have Piet Emmer, Simon Groenveld (soon to be emeritus though), Wim Blockmans, Leonard Blusse and several others who have published a lot.

Concerning resources Leiden is a good place, considering firstly the size of the University Library (which is quite ok), the nearness of both the Royal Library (Koninklijke Bibliotheek, which owns every publication (book, article, magazine, newspaper) ever published in Dutch besides many other materials, and the National Archives (Nationaal Archief) in The Hague (about 15 minutes from Leiden Central Station). Besides that, Leiden has a very well preserved city archive. Also Leiden has a lot of Museums and a nice historic centre, and is close to Amsterdam (30 min.), Utrecht (40 min.), Rotterdam (30 min.) and pretty much all of the Randstad.

The general level of students is pretty good, I'd say, but it's hard to be unbiased.

Not planning to join the korps, not my kind of thing. I'm not too bothered about activity, since I'm pretty used to having to travel for fun; Breukelen isn't the most ideal place for such activities. Worst case, I'll bunk up in Utrecht or Amsterdam, since I know enough people in the region where that's possible.

Fragony is right that Leiden might a bit of a hard nut to crack, socially, if you don't commit yourself to a students' club, a sports' club, or something similar, considering something of about 40% of all students (including foreign students and pensioners) joins a club, which is much higher then in other University towns in the Netherlands. However, Leiden does have a lot of cafes (unfortunately though, no "Grote Markt" or something similar where most localities are concentrated, so you have to find a nice spot yourself). Not all clubs are "Korps" though. That is only a (well-known) minority (of which I myself m not, and were not, a member), and there are many other clubs which can be a lot of fun.

Well, I'm out for the moment. Doesn't hesitate to ask.

[Geoffrey S]

Thank you for your informative post. Like I said, it does mean I can make a bit more of an informed decision when I do decide what to do next; Leiden is pretty much top of the list right now.

Well, of course my experience with other universities is limited. One thing you should ask yourself is what you want out of the study of History, as different universities offer different specialisations. For example, Utrecht is good for Early Medieval history, which isn't actually teached at Leiden University.

I'm not entirely certain which direction I'll be heading in yet, since I haven't actually had history lessons for some three years. Early modern history holds quite some appeal, alongside medieval history and ancient history. How long would it usually take for some sort of specialisation to emerge in a student at Leiden, or is a more specific direction expected from the outset?

The quality of teaching is generally pretty good, of course depending on the teacher you get. If you are looking for well known personalities in the field of History, Leiden is apretty neat place to go. Admittedly, we don't have Maarten van Rossem (who is in Utrecht), but we have Piet Emmer, Simon Groenveld (soon to be emeritus though), Wim Blockmans, Leonard Blusse and several others who have published a lot.

It's not necessarily well-known teachers I'm looking for, although I guess it does help if the teacher is charismatic and clearly a specialist in his/her field. One of the reasons I stopped following history at school was because of the lacklustre teaching, both in presentation and content. But I gather in general you think that's not a problem at Leiden?

Shall we sort the rest out via PM , instead of hijacking the thread ?

Sure thing. If you need anything, don't hesitate to PM me and I'll sort something out.

[Brutus]

I'm not entirely certain which direction I'll be heading in yet, since I haven't actually had history lessons for some three years. Early modern history holds quite some appeal, alongside medieval history and ancient history. How long would it usually take for some sort of specialisation to emerge in a student at Leiden, or is a more specific direction expected from the outset?

I'm not completely familiar with the Ba/Ma-system, as I'm still going to be an old-fashioned doctorandus, but I think this is still more or less the same as it used to be: In your first year (propedeuse) you will get courses on most general fields, meaning on Ancient, Medieval, Early Modern/Modern, Social-Economic and Dutch History, as well as general historical theory. That's why it also isn't necessary to follow history in middle school. From these experiences with these subjects (and subsequently, related methods, teachers, etc.) you will be expected to chose a number of subjects (used to be 3) as your main courses for the next year. After that, depending on the field you wish to finish your study with, you can specialize as much as you want.
Take a look at the studiegids for next year, if you haven't seen it.

It's not necessarily well-known teachers I'm looking for, although I guess it does help if the teacher is charismatic and clearly a specialist in his/her field. One of the reasons I stopped following history at school was because of the lacklustre teaching, both in presentation and content. But I gather in general you think that's not a problem at Leiden?

As I said, it really depends on the teacher. Many can be quite pleasing when teaching courses, but others really aren't. Most of them are fine, I reckon. I don't think that in general you will be better or worse off at Leiden than anywhere else.

[Adrian II]

Concerning resources Leiden is a good place, considering firstly the size of the University Library (which is quite ok), the nearness of both the Royal Library (Koninklijke Bibliotheek, which owns every publication (book, article, magazine, newspaper) ever published in Dutch besides many other materials, and the National Archives (Nationaal Archief) in The Hague (about 15 minutes from Leiden Central Station). Besides that, Leiden has a very well preserved city archive.

Those were some big advantages when I studied History there in the 1970's and early 1980's, and I guess they still are. European Expansion used to be big in those days, it was a fast developing and promising field of study and research, but since Prof. Wesseling retired not much is heard of it anymore.

Do not forget the Archaeological Museum, which has among other things a collection of mummies that can easily compete with Oxford's. Oxford has more of them, but my Professors used to emphasize that the Leyden mummies were of civil servants of much higher status...

Leyden's student life has always been uniquely concentrated in student associations. I joined the Leidsch Studenten Corps and never regretted it. But I also frequented left-wing assiciations like Catena and I spent my rowing years with Asopos de Vliet. A nice balance, all in all.
As for the lack of a Grote Markt (central square), there are a number of decent pubs.

Say Brutus, is the bar called "Het Keizertje" still up and running? Used to be my favourite..

[Brutus]

Say Brutus, is the bar called "Het Keizertje" still up and running? Used to be my favourite..

Yep, it still is. Usually quite busy too.

[Adrian II]

Yep, it still is. Usually quite busy too.

Oh good, and no doubt still dominated by uproariously drunk biologists from the nearby Herbarium. Some things never change...

[English assassin]

Do not forget the Archaeological Museum, which has among other things a collection of mummies that can easily compete with Oxford's. Oxford has more of them, but my Professors used to emphasize that the Leyden mummies were of civil servants of much higher status...

I never knew Oxford's Egyptologists had let the side down with a collection of mummified chavs. Tut Tut. (hem, sorry. Couldn't resist.) But then I was one of Oxford's uproariously drunk biologists...

I bet we had more shrunken heads though.* Good old Pitt Rivers, what a nutter.

(*I mean as museum exhibits, not on the biologists. Though that is also possible)

[Geoffrey S]

Thanks to all who provided info on Leiden; it's looking like the university I'll be going for, so all information was certainly welcome.

[Adrian II]

I bet we had more shrunken heads though.* Good old Pitt Rivers, what a nutter.

(*I mean as museum exhibits, not on the biologists. Though that is also possible)

On the other hand, I am sure Leyden excels in the field of Papuan penis sheaths. I recall a couple of ceremonial sheaths at least fifteen inches long that were a huge hit with many an uproariously drunk biologist as well, particularly during after-parties in the Herbarium's cellars. They had live snakes as well, a crocodile, all sorts of vermin. And totally disgusting fruit flies. They were kept in glass cages and used for gor genetic experiments, I believe. Millions, trillions, gazillions of swarming, constantly copulating fruit flies...

[A.Saturnus]

Don't know about the history department, but the social sciences department has to swim in money. I mean, they have a waterfall in their entrence hall. A frigging waterfall!