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Thread: Chavez and the Jackal
Vladimir 14:00 05-26-2006
I thought it would be a good idea to inform JAG and everyone who supports the populist leader of Venezuela, who one if his greatest admirers is. It's none other than Carlos the Jackal.

Originally Posted by :
A couple of other interesting facts from the Bernie [Carlos] the Jackal file.

He has become a radical Muslim. He now declares that he is an ardent supporter of Osama Bin Laden. He praised the New York Trade Towers attack on 9/11 and called it a “lofty feat of arms.”

He is also a fan of Hugo Chavez, Cindy Sheehan’s buddy who runs Venezuela.

In fact Chavez and The Jackal are pen pals. They write back and forth.

In one letter, printed in Harper’s, Hugo Chavez said this to his boy Bernie the Jackal:

“Time delivers miracles only to those who maintain a righteous spirit, to those who understand the true meaning of things.”

Sooo 1960’s. Does that have that revolutionary sound? I mean is that Bobbie Seale writing to Huey Newton and the Black Panthers?

Hugo Chavez president of Venezuela, who recently called President George Bush the most evil man in the world refers to Bernie the Jackal as “my distinguished compatriot.” Go figure.
Edit: damn grammar.

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Avicenna 14:16 05-26-2006
You happen to be named after one of his brothers

Well, Bush has ties to Bin Laden and his family as well.

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Vladimir 14:24 05-26-2006
Originally Posted by Tiberius:
You happen to be named after one of his brothers
Well my interest is more in ancient history. I actually have very little knowledge of who that particular person was but I know they named a providence/state/thing after him.

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Major Robert Dump 14:37 05-26-2006
Yes I was at a diner and I thought I saw Chavez and Richard Gere having lunch but I didn't want to say anything because Bruce Willis was watching me and I think he had a gun.

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Redleg 15:37 05-26-2006
Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump:
Yes I was at a diner and I thought I saw Chavez and Richard Gere having lunch but I didn't want to say anything because Bruce Willis was watching me and I think he had a gun.
Are you sure that it was a gun that you saw poking out of his pants pocket?



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solypsist 18:15 05-26-2006
let's just cut right to the extreme, over-the-top comparison and ask: if hitler liked donuts, would donuts suddenly be unacceptable food by association?

the fact that carlos the jackal (who is venezuelan) likes this or that person is irrelevant. unless one wants to start using this character-judgement-by-oblique-association process for everyone: the bush family are great admirers of teh house of saud and the bin laden family. see? totally worthless.

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Major Robert Dump 11:11 05-27-2006
Originally Posted by Redleg:
Are you sure that it was a gun that you saw poking out of his pants pocket?

My statement was kind of amibiguous, so I don't know who you think might be pointing something other than a gun at me, but Richard Gere does carry around a lot of bratwurst (to feed his ferrets) so maybe it wasn't a gun.

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Vladimir 20:48 05-26-2006
Socialism does work. Just look at the economies of France and Germany.

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Tribesman 21:23 05-26-2006
Socialism does work. Just look at the economies of France and Germany.
Yep you have a point there Vlad , neither of those countries has a public debt anyway near your own , neither has a trade defecit anyway near your own , and neither is so beholden to chinese money to keep afloat .
Now if you want to talk economic competiteveness , then how many of the top 10 countries would you describe as having "socialist" domestic policies
Perhaps you had better not look ,they have high taxes and generous healthcare/welfare payments . You wouldn't want to get your bubble burst would you

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Ser Clegane 21:40 05-26-2006
Originally Posted by Vladimir:
Socialism does work. Just look at the economies of France and Germany.
Wow ... I didn't know we were a "Socialist" country. Thanks so much for enlightening me.
Perhaps you would be willing to define "Socialism" in this context?

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Louis VI the Fat 04:46 05-28-2006
Here is Hugo's letter of praise to Carlos the Jackal:

http://www.analitica.com/bitblioteca...rta_chacal.asp


Naturally, they correspond in spanish, but from what I gather from it, the admiration is mutual. Naturally again, you can guess my thoughts about Chavez being buddies with a terrorist who's currently in gaol for the murder of Frenchmen.


Just about everything else that's written in that blog is not true.

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Tribesman 09:09 05-28-2006
Any proof of all those companies funding the ALF

Well you should know Rabbit , a quick look at its finances should be enough , or a look at its board of directors .

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Soulforged 18:36 05-28-2006
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat:
Here is Hugo's letter of praise to Carlos the Jackal:

http://www.analitica.com/bitblioteca...rta_chacal.asp


Naturally, they correspond in spanish, but from what I gather from it, the admiration is mutual. Naturally again, you can guess my thoughts about Chavez being buddies with a terrorist who's currently in gaol for the murder of Frenchmen.


Just about everything else that's written in that blog is not true.
It's more about praising to the revolution, also an academic class it seems. Mostly he talks about Bolivar and God again, remembering their wisdom, and hopes for a new leader to see the light to glory. Now this part scares me a little:
"Yo siento que la energía de mi alma se eleva, se ensancha y se iguala siempre a la magnitud de los peligros. Mi médico me ha dicho que mi alma necesita alimentarse de peligros para conservar mi juicio, de manera que al crearme Dios permitió esta tempestuosa revolución, para que yo pudiera vivir ocupado en mi destino especial."
I'll translate it: "I feel that the energy of my soul raises, widens and becomes equal to the measure of dangers. My doctor has told me that my soul needs to feed upon dangers so I can keep my sanity, in that way that when God created me he allowed this thunderous revolution to happen,so I could live occupied with my special destiny." This quote if from Bolivar.

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Louis VI the Fat 18:49 05-28-2006
Originally Posted by Soulforged:
It's more about praising to the revolution,
But Chavez feels that he and this terrorist are part of the same revolution.

I don't care how confused and unintelligable his letter about the revolution is. Chaves concludes that he and this convicted terrorist are part of one and the same movement.

With profound faith in the cause and the mission. For now and for always!

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Soulforged 19:36 05-28-2006
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat:
But Chavez feels that he and this terrorist are part of the same revolution.

I don't care how confused and unintelligable his letter about the revolution is. Chaves concludes that he and this convicted terrorist are part of one and the same movement.

With profound faith in the cause and the mission. For now and for always!
Carlos The Jackal: To know why a person is like this now we might, as well, know his past.
(This is all from wikipedia)
Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
Ramírez Sánchez was born in Caracas, Venezuela. His father, a Marxist lawyer, gave him the forename Ilich, after Lenin. He was educated at a local school in Caracas and joined the youth movement of the national communist party in 1959. Apart from his native Spanish, he reportedly speaks Arabic and Russian, as well as English and French. After attending the Third Tricontinental in January, 1966, with his father, he spent the following summer at Camp Mantanzas, a guerrilla warfare school run by the Cuban DGI located near Havana. Later that year, after the divorce of his parents, his mother took him and his brother to London to continue their studies in Stafford House Tutorial College in Kensington. In 1968 his father tried to take him and his brother Lenin to Sorbonne University but eventually opted for Patrice Lumumba University in Moscow. He was expelled from the university in 1970.
Apparently he traveled from there to a guerrilla training camp run by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) in Amman, Jordan. It was there that he gained the pseudonym Carlos (my note: I suppose it's from Marx, Carlos Marx). He claimed to have fought alongside the PFLP members as they resisted the Jordanian government's efforts to expel them in 1970. When he did leave Jordan it was for London where he attended courses at the London School of Economics and apparently worked for the PFLP.
Carlos was given the "Jackal" moniker by the press when the Frederick Forsyth novel The Day of the Jackal was reportedly found among his belongings. Although the book actually belonged to someone else, the nickname stuck.
In 1973 Carlos performed his first criminal act for the PFLP, a failed assassination attempt on Jewish businessman Joseph Sieff prompted by the Mossad assassination of Mohamed Boudia, a theatre director accused of being a PFLP leader, in Paris. Ramírez Sánchez also admits responsibility for a failed bomb attack on the Bank Hapoalim in London and car bomb attacks on three French newspapers who were accused of pro-Israeli leanings. He claimed to be the grenade thrower at a Parisian restaurant, an attack that killed two and injured thirty. He later participated in two failed rocket propelled grenade attacks on El Al airliners at Orly Airport near Paris, France on January 13 and 17, 1975.
On June 27, 1975 Ramírez Sánchez's PFLP contact Lebanon-born Michel Moukharbal was captured and successfully interrogated. When three policemen tried to apprehend Ramírez Sánchez at a house in Paris in the middle of a party, he shot two detectives, fled the scene, and managed to escape through Brussels to Beirut. It was later revealed that Michel Moukharbal had been secretly working for the Mossad.
From Beirut Carlos participated in the planning for the attack on the headquarters of OPEC in Vienna. In December 1975 he led the six-person team that assaulted the meeting of OPEC leaders and took over sixty hostages. On December 22 the rebels and forty-two hostages were given an airliner and flown to Algiers, where thirty hostages were freed, the DC-9 was then flown on to Tripoli where more hostages were freed before flying back to Algiers where the remaining hostages were freed and the rebels were granted asylum. Ramírez Sánchez soon left Algeria for Libya and then Aden where he attended a meeting of senior PFLP officials to justify his failure to execute two senior OPEC hostages, oil minister of Iran Jamshid Amuzgar and the oil minister of Saudi Arabia, Ahmed Zaki Yamani. He might have also embezzled some of the ransom money. PFLP leader Wadie Haddad expelled him.
In September 1976 Ramírez Sánchez was briefly arrested in Yugoslavia and then flown to Baghdad. From there he chose to settle more permanently in Aden, where he set about forming his own group, the Organisation of Arab Armed Struggle, of Syrian, Lebanese and German rebels. He also formed a contact with East Germany's Stasi. At one stage, Romanian Securitate hired him to assassinate Romanian dissidents in France and destroy Radio Free Europe offices in Munich. With conditional support from the Iraqi regime and the death of Haddad, Carlos offered the services of his group to the PFLP and other groups.
The group did not perform its first acts until early in 1982, with a failed attack on a nuclear power station. When two of the group, including Magdalena Kopp, Carlos's wife, were arrested in Paris the group set off a number of bombs in retaliation against French targets. Operations in 1983 included attacks on the "Maison de France" in Berlin in August and two bombs on TGV services in December. These attacks led to pressure on European states that tolerated Ramírez Sánchez. For over two years he lived in Hungary, in Budapest's noble quarter the second district. His main go-between for some of his money-sources like Gaddhafi of Dr. Habbash was the friend of his sister Dietmar C. Sanchez was expelled from Hungary in late 1985 and was refused aid in Iraq, Libya and Cuba before he found limited support in Syria. He settled in Damascus with Kopp and their daughter Elba Rosa.
The Syrian government forced Ramírez Sánchez to remain inactive and he was soon no longer seen as a threat but rather a pathetic figure. However in 1990 the Iraqi government approached him and in September 1991 he was expelled from Syria and eventually found a temporary home in Jordan. He found better protection in Sudan and moved to Khartoum.
During his career, most of it during the Cold War, western accounts persistently claimed he was a KGB agent but the link is tenuous at best. It is now clear that he had no part in the Munich Massacre (the attack on Israeli athletes in Munich in 1972) or the 1976 hijacking of Air France Flight 193 to Entebbe. Some attacks may have been attached to him for lack of anyone else to claim the credit. His own boasts about probably nonexistent "missions" confuse the matter even more.


I don't know Louis. I think that they're pretty well linked by revolution, that might be his "special destiny" created by God to only make revolution, that's what Carlos has been doing all his life. Many people see acts of revolution as terrorism, and perhaps many revolutions require terror. Wheter I like this or not, the link between them seems pretty clear to me, not only Carlos is venezuelan, but he's also a revolutionary carrying the flag of marxism, even if Chavez hadn't wrote him the letter (one of various it seems) the connection between them is necessary. To Chavez any revolutionary traces back to Bolivar and his righteous fight.

Now a little thing I forgot of the letter because I missed his potencial significance, let's see:
"Tiempo de poder luchar por ideales y tiempo de no poder sino valorar la propia lucha… Tiempo de oportunidad, del fino olfato y del instinto al acecho para alcanzar el momento psicológico propicio en que Ariadna, investida de leyes, teja el hilo que permita salir del laberinto…"
This means: "Times to fight for ideals and times in wich we cannot do other thing than to value our own fight... Times of oportunity, fine sense of smell and of the instinct that stalks for the proper psicological moment in wich Ariadna, invested on law, will weave the thread that leads the way out of the maze..." What's the significance? Well we could see it as an involvement of Chavez in a potencial plot to get Carlos off of jail, but the part of "invested of law" clearly shows that he hopes for the judicial system to take that decision. Why this criptic style? Well ask Chavez (though I suppose it's to not generate an automatic international scandal), he does a lot of references to Bolivar and the final part, in addittion to being a reference to ancient greek mitology, is also a reference to a famous sentence of Bolivar, that's included on the letter: "¡Cómo podré salir yo de este laberinto…!" - "How could I get out of this maze...!".

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Louis VI the Fat 20:32 05-28-2006
Originally Posted by Soulforged:
I don't know Louis.
In all honesty, I don't know either. There is a part of me that acknowledges that if I lived in South America in the 1970's and 80's, I would have been a marxist revolutionary terrorist myself. Strange but true. In that context, they were the ones who were right. The difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter is one of political persuasion indeed.

That Carlos and Chavez see themselves in a larger tradition doesn't discredit the entirity of Latin American revolutionary fervor. The reverse, that tradition a priori discrediting Chavez, is not true either.
They should each be valued on their own merits.
And the case for Carlos is not that strong. Like so many terrorists, he ended up murdering for the sake of it, indiscriminately. It does discredit Chavez that he still considers him a part of his social movement. Whatever one may think of Chavez, he should be more discriminate in choosing his friends.


The group did not perform its first acts until early in 1982, with a failed attack on a nuclear power station. When two of the group, including Magdalena Kopp, Carlos's wife, were arrested in Paris the group set off a number of bombs in retaliation against French targets. Operations in 1983 included attacks on the "Maison de France" in Berlin in August and two bombs on TGV services in December.

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