Roman Liburnes fleet problem

[spacedouthamster]

Playing as the romans in v0.74 I have noticed that the covered liburnes fleet has better stats than the roman trireme and yet it is cheaper to produce, is this correct? and if so why include the trireme as a decent economist isn't going to build a more expensive ship that isn't as good.

[O'ETAIPOS]

Liburnes should be available after marian reform and better stats reflect changes in ship weapons, while lower cost reflects that this is smaller ship than trireme and needs much less oarsmen.

It will be like this in our next build.

[spacedouthamster]

this is well before the marian reforms though, year 245 BC.

[Metalstrm]

I'm sorry to bring this up again, but since I've searched and this is the only thread I found, I'd rather ask here.

So,

1. Again, why should anyone buy triremes over covered liburnes? They have the same stats, yet the triremes cost 500 more. This is 225 BC if that makes a difference.

2. Do all vessels have a 52 manpower? Indeed, does the number 52 refer to people, or ships? I've noticed that the the names often involve the word 'fleet', so I felt it was a bit ambiguous, and anyway 52 is unrealistic for any kind of vessel. This might have to do with engine limitations, so I'd appreciate it if you can explain it to me.

Thanks.

[O'ETAIPOS]

The plan was to make liburnes appear only after marian reform, but it shown imposible due to engine limitations (we would have to devote special building for it, but none was free).

The idea is that each unit represents "fleet" of some 20-25 ships, so yes all ships have the same amount of "men". The actual number is obviously different on different unit sizes.


Edit: for Liburnes: If you like to keep historical, you could either wait till Marian reform, or not build them until some 10 years after you take control of Illyria, from where this ship originated.

[Metalstrm]

Thanks for the reply! Then I'm assuming that the majority of the manpower needed for a ship is obtained through slaves which are part of the shown population. Makes more sense that way :)

I see about the marian reform problem. Is it something that could be done through a script? (I have absolutely no idea) Or maybe change some of the stats on the ships so as to justify the difference in cost.

[Atilius]

Then I'm assuming that the majority of the manpower needed for a ship is obtained through slaves which are part of the shown population.

Slaves were rarely used as warship oarsmen in this period. Skilled naval crew were much sought after in the ancient world; rowers required training and teamwork simply to avoid fouling each other's oars, not to mention performing the maneuvers necessary to execute the standard naval tactics of the day.

[Darth Stalin]

Well, the liburnes appeared in my Roman campaign around 216 BC IIRC; now I have 213 BC and keep Illyria since ~250 BC or so...
Also I have all Spain and almost all Karthage, except provinces of Syrthim and Phasania... also all mainland Greece is mine...
Well, maybe could the Liburnes be somehow attached to Marian Reforms? => could it be that they require, to be buildable, the Marian Reforms building? (like: requires faction [seleucid] and building_present min_level romani_reforms etc. the string )