Elite Units

[Alexanderofmacedon]

In WWII, what were some of the elite units for the different countries involved in the war? I know of the Shutzstaffel (SS) of Germany, but anyone know of any others from other countries?

[Kralizec]

SAS and SBS for the Brittish.

Russian marines were tough nails, especially compared to the rest of their armed forces.

My knowledge of WW2 is sadly lacking...

[Duke Malcolm]

The Chindits!

[Dutch_guy]

My knowledge of WW2 is sadly lacking...

You mean the Spetznaz (sp?) right, as you were refering to Russian Commando's ?

As for my own country....I don't know of any. Do we even have one ?

[Alexanderofmacedon]

You mean the Spetznaz (sp?) right, as you were refering to Russian Commando's ?

As for my own country....I don't know of any. Do we even have one ?

When the allies took over Holland didn't you shave the heads of the women sleeping with the Nazi's?

[ShadesPanther]

There was SOE as well by the Allies

[lars573]

In WWII, what were some of the elite units for the different countries involved in the war? I know of the Shutzstaffel (SS) of Germany, but anyone know of any others from other countries?

The SS had 2 overal branches you know. The Agelemgne (political I think I know it's not spelled right) and Waffen (armed) SS. And were intended as a kind of police force. But the Waffen SS had some of the better Nazi fighting units. Also the German paratrooper divisions (Herman Goering and Adolf Hitler) were some of the best infantry units around. The Whrmarcht also had elite crack units too.

SAS and SBS for the Brittish.

I'd add the Long range desert group to that too. They took the SAS to their missions in North Africa. Also the 4th Indian division was considered elite at the time.

For the US
101st and 82nd airbourne divisions
US army ranger batallion
Merricks raiders

That's all I remember now.

[Duke Malcolm]

I'd add the Long range desert group to that too. They took the SAS to their missions in North Africa. Also the 4th Indian division was considered elite at the time.

Are you sure you don't mean the 3rd Indian Division? The Chindits? I was of the impression the 4th Indian Division was just a regular Infantry Division in Africa.

[lars573]

I was reading some big blog/essay/website (my memory is dodgey on where's and when's) on the desert campagin and it said that some British division and 4th Indian wre moved to the southern Sudan to stop Italian incursions from Abyssinia, and that 4th Indian was "regarded as an elite unit".

[Duke Malcolm]

Ah, I did not know that.

[Keba]

The Soviets had units of NKVD troops in several campaigns. While the NKVD was the secret police they did a lot of work and fightning (and a lot of war crimes, but that is a different subject entirely).

Right now, off the top of my head, during the Axis advance on Stalingrad, while the vast majority of Soviet troops broke, NKVD divisions stayed behind and held of the German advance quite efficently, they were swept away, but the thing is they stayed against some pretty impressive odds.

[KrooK]

I don't think Spetznaz has been established during ww2, rather later.
There were some Polish elite units - actually most of polish units could be called elite comparing with other allies.

303 fighter squad - over 200 Germans planes destroyed during battle of Britain - and more later.
ORP Dzik and ORP Sokół - submarines called "terrible twins", about 40 ships sunk on Mediterran Sea
ORP Garland - destroyer - heroes from north conwoys
Strzelcow Karpackich infantry brigade - defenders of Tobruk
Independent Parachute Brigade - only one unit which helped British Division at Arnhem, without them Brits would loose all unit.

[AggonyDuck]

In WWII, what were some of the elite units for the different countries involved in the war? I know of the Shutzstaffel (SS) of Germany, but anyone know of any others from other countries?

Well only a handful of the SS-divisions were actually considered elite. A good portion of the SS-divisions were actually mostly used in anti-partisan duty and could hardly be considered elite.

Also the Heer had the Panzer Lehr and Grossdeutschland divisions which were definately elite.

[lars573]

I don't think Spetznaz has been established during ww2, rather later.
There were some Polish elite units - actually most of polish units could be called elite comparing with other allies.

303 fighter squad - over 200 Germans planes destroyed during battle of Britain - and more later.
ORP Dzik and ORP Sokół - submarines called "terrible twins", about 40 ships sunk on Mediterran Sea
ORP Garland - destroyer - heroes from north conwoys
Strzelcow Karpackich infantry brigade - defenders of Tobruk
Independent Parachute Brigade - only one unit which helped British Division at Arnhem, without them Brits would loose all unit.

Actually a little googling indicates that the spetsnaz came into being in 1930 along side Soviet airbourne troops.

[Pannonian]

I was reading some big blog/essay/website (my memory is dodgey on where's and when's) on the desert campagin and it said that some British division and 4th Indian wre moved to the southern Sudan to stop Italian incursions from Abyssinia, and that 4th Indian was "regarded as an elite unit".

In 1940, British and Empire troops moved against the Italian colony of Abyssinia and the Italian expeditionary force that had invaded Egypt. The Abyssinian force under Alan Cunningham (brother of Andrew of Taranto fame) consisted of 3rd and 4th Indian divisions, regarded as suitable for mountain warfare in the Abyssinian interior. The Egyptian force under Richard O'Connor consisted of 6th Australian division and 7th armoured division (the Desert Rats).

Both operations were wildly successful, the Indians reducing Abyssinia within a few weeks before the 4th joined O'Connor in pushing the huge Italian force out of Egypt and Cyrenaica (150,000 prisoners captured by a British force of around 30-40,000). The spectacular success of the British prompted Hitler to send an expeditionary force of his own under Erwin Rommel.

A notable Commonwealth conventional division was the 9th Australian. They made their name defending Tobruk in combination with the 4th Indian, weren't present during the yo-yo campaigns of the next 12 months and were involved in the heaviest fighting during Alamein. Montgomery's favourite division, it is said that during the preparations for Overlord he would forever look out of the window and wish that the 9th Australians were available.

British elites
Commandos: Used in amphibious raids, they irritated Hitler so much that he ordered any such captured to be shot on the spot (the Commando order).
617 (bomber) squadron: Formed to attack the Ruhr dams, they were later used in other specialised missions, including dropping yet more Barnes Wallis creations on the Tirpitz among other targets.

US elites
99th (fighter) squadron, later expanded to 332nd fighter group: The Tuskegee airmen consisted entirely of blacks, notching up an astonishing record with not a single bomber lost that was escorted by the Tuskegees. US bombers would ask for the "Redtails" to protect them while the Germans feared the "Black Birdmen".
761st tank battalion: The "Black Panthers" were the support of choice for US infantry despite their black crews since they stayed when most tankmen would usualy retreat. Often used in holding roles while white units delivered the killing blow, they frequently exceeded expectations by attacking and prevailing against superior German forces they were expected to buckle against.
100th battalion, 442nd infantry: Formed from 2nd generation Japanese-Americans, it became the most heavily decorated unit of its size despite prejudice denying them many well-earned decorations.

Note: their valour during WW2 prompted Truman to end segregation in the armed forces.

[Lord Winter]

Also the 101st U.S. airborne division. The flying tigers fighter squad(?) in the pacific theatre.

[Avicenna]

Not sure about the names, but did the Soviets have some kind of elites in the East waiting for a Japanese invasion? When they realised that the Japanese wouldn't invade, they moved them over to fight Germany in the West.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Also the 101st U.S. airborne division. The flying tigers fighter squad(?) in the pacific theatre.

IIRC the 101st airborne was deployed on D-day and Market Garden in Europe not the pacific theatre. I could be wrong.

[cegorach]

Elite - so units with special training and/or very long tradition of fighting.

For Poland it would be:

303 Fighter Squadron - scored more victories than any allied squadron in the Battle of Britain - its tradition begins wth American volunteer Kosciusko fighter squadron from 1920 war and one of the squadrons from the Pursuit Brigade from 1939. It indeed included most of the most experienced Polish pilots later sent to other Polish and Allied units.

Commando units in 2nd Polish Corps - fought as elite assault infantry for example at Monte Cassino.

SBS - Paratroppers Brigade trained for the support of uprising in Poland, but wasted at Arnhem at the time of the Warsaw Uprising.

'Parasol' ( Umbrella) and 'Baszta' ( Tower) -and other - Home Army elite units, uderground had their own elites as well.

1st Armoured Division - the one which fought at Falaise, in Holland and Germany in 1944-45.
It has much older tradition behind - it was elite 'Black Brigade' ( 10th motorised Cavalry Brigade) in 1939 the unit stopped 1 Panzer and 1 Light divisions for a long time and in the end was the only whole big Polish unit to retreat to Hungary/Romania. In 1940 it fought as 10th (tank) Cavalry Brigade in France and was praised by its resistence by French HQ.

In 1939 - most of Cavalry Brigades ( including 2 mechanised and 11 normal) the cavalry was elite mounted infantry thanks to their equipment ( anti-tank weaponry for example) and training, Highland 21st Division, finally 1st and 3rd Legionary Infantry Divisions.
Cavalry was especially respected by Germans - no because of some non-existent, propaganda rubbish about charging tanks which never happened - but thanks to the discipline and morale of these soldiers.
Special award in 1939 would go to the Wolynska ( Volhynian) Brigade which stopped XVIth Panzer Corps for two days skillfully using their weaponry and this way destroying numerous armoured vehicles. It retreated according to the plan and orders.

Regards Cegorach

[Papewaio]

I thought the definition of an elite unit would be one that has a selection criteria from other units. It would not be one that you can (normally) join directly as a civilian, it would have to one that you can only join by 'having the right stuff.'

So it would be the recon, commando and other specialised units. Not an entire Paratrooper Division (but maybe a specialised elite group with them).

Or am I being too stringent in automatcially making it only special forces that are elite?

====

So in WWII I would say for elite speical forces:
Z Force, SAS/SBS commando squadrons.

For elite regular forces: ANZACs in particular the Maori Battalion, and as mentioned the defenders at Tobruk.

[Rosacrux redux]

I think that's too restrictive a definition. Somebody mentioned the soviet units stationed in Siberia as "elites"... well, that's the "elite unit" definition as far as modern armies go: a unit that stands above the others in terms of efficiency, maybe experience, standing, weaponry etc. In our example, the Siberian divisions practically turned the tide in the eastern front, and they were used as the spearhead in every serious engagement ...at least until they started to be severely depleted (the soviet tactics were rather costly in terms of their own men lives...).

That would be the definition of an "elite unit". Other soviet elite units were the Guard divisions (most of them got the best equipment, machinery and weaponry and were used in a fitting role) and in the German side, the SS divisions should be regarded elite as well.

I wouldn't confuse elites with spec-ops. The latter are in a league of their own, they are not practically part of the "real" army, they are not used like the rest of the units.

[Kagemusha]

Finnish elite units would be 1st,2nd and 3rd Jäeger Battalion,1st(and only) Panzer Brigade and Also the long range recon Sissi battalions.And if you look at the casulties ratio you could put the whole Finnish airforce as Elite units.

[Rodion Romanovich]

The LRDG weren't officially an elite unit, but a special forces unit that were quite effective. They did mostly recon but also with SAS I think made raids against axis airfields in North Africa shortly before second El Alamein.

Edit: yes, here's from wikipedia: "Stirling still managed to organise another assault against the German airfields at Aqedabia, Sirte and Agheila, this time [the SAS troops were] transported by the LRDG. They destroyed 61 enemy aircraft without a single casualty."

[English assassin]

IIRC all soviet guards units (and there were a lot) were elite in a sense, even if only meant better equipment or a fuller unit roster.

I'm not sure the British forces really did elite as such. Given that the challenge for both the British and the Americans was to create a large army out of people who a few months before were shopkeepers, it would have been rather counter-productive to have allowed what would presumably have been mostly peace time professional soldiers to swan about lording it over everyone else.

I gather the Germans regarded the various UK Guards regiments as elite but whether they really stood out from their less socially desirable peers in combat effectiveness I doubt. 7th armoured was the first fully mechanised division in the army, and after the North Africa campaign had a reputation. Probably only the paras qualify as a truly elite infantry unit.

Oh and there's the Royal Marines of course, but that's more special forces really.

[Dutch_guy]

When the allies took over Holland didn't you shave the heads of the women sleeping with the Nazi's?

Yes, when we were liberated female collaborators had their hair on their head shaved off, don't know any reason behind that other than identification. But indeed it did happen.

[Ludens]

As for my own country....I don't know of any. Do we even have one ?

The Netherlands' main force was and always has been her navy, not her army, but in 1940 most of the naval forces would probably have been stationed in Dutch India. The Dutch army and airforce had been neglected during the interbellum and had to work with outdated or sometimes even antiquidated equipment. I therefor really doubt there were any elite units in these forces. The current Dutch non-naval elites, the commandos and the paratroopers, had yet to be established.

[Red Peasant]

I gather the Germans regarded the various UK Guards regiments as elite but whether they really stood out from their less socially desirable peers in combat effectiveness I doubt. 7th armoured was the first fully mechanised division in the army, and after the North Africa campaign had a reputation. Probably only the paras qualify as a truly elite infantry unit.

Depends what you mean by elite. My grandfather, from the backstreets of Liverpool (so, less socially desirable to you ), was in the 17/21 Lancers of Light Brigade fame, and they certainly considered themselves as elite ... cavalry. Then, the govt (a Tory govt it should be noted, the so-called guardians of our armed-forces) took their horses off them in the mid 30s and didn't mechanize the regiment for about two years!

[Red Peasant]

Oh, and they were rather annoyed that they were not allowed to wear their Death's Head regimental badges in case they scared the natives over in Europe. An early case of PC thinking.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

German Elite:

Großdeutschland Divisions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gro%C3%...hland_Division


Fallschirm-Panzer Division 1 Hermann Göring

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallsch...nn_G%C3%B6ring

Those are some that I can recall now.

[hoom]

28th NZ (maori) battalion.
Not officially an elite that I'm aware of but:

Lieutenant-General Lord Freyberg,
VC, GCMG, KCB, KBE, DSO

I am proud to be asked by the Maoris to write a foreword to the history of their Battalion, partly because they had such a distinguished fighting record, but also because they were such excellent wartime comrades. Speaking of their military record overseas—I believe that when this history is published, it will be recognised more widely that no infantry battalion had a more distinguished record, or saw more fighting, or, alas, had such heavy casualties as the Maori Battalion.