Usage of the word "Liberal"

[GeneralHankerchief]

It seems that in the past few years, "Liberal" has gone from a word to describe a point of view on the political spectrum to a derogatory term that conservatives use to label anyone that they disagree with. It's gotten so rampant that the liberals have found a new term to describe themselves: "Progressive," which sounds really wussy to me.

So I'm asking for your opinion on this. How do you feel about the downfall of "Liberal," how do use "Liberal," and what are your thoughts on "Progressive?"

[Redleg]

It seems that in the past few years, "Liberal" has gone from a word to describe a point of view on the political spectrum to a derogatory term that conservatives use to label anyone that they disagree with. It's gotten so rampant that the liberals have found a new term to describe themselves: "Progressive," which sounds really wussy to me.

So I'm asking for your opinion on this. How do you feel about the downfall of "Liberal," how do use "Liberal," and what are your thoughts on "Progressive?"

Progressive is a wimp out by those who follow liberial politicial thoughts.

[Banquo's Ghost]

I agree with Redleg, and I'm a liberal.

Our 'side' tends to use the 'conservative' label in much the same blunt instrument manner, as a dismissive derogatory akin to baby-eaters and fascists - it's just that conservatives tend to be so much better at condescension and insults.

Liberal has a long and honourable history as a political philosophy, and I wear that badge with pride (even in the current US definition of the term).

It's only perjorative if you are unsure of your ground. The modern-day US Democrats, for example, are so bereft of ideology that they run screaming from the word 'liberal' as if it is a curse. They should stand tall and try to convince the American voter that the liberal way is a good choice. If they can't do that honestly and forthrightly, and bring the people with them, then they have no right to expect power by stealth.

[KafirChobee]

I agree with Redleg, and I'm a liberal.

Our 'side' tends to use the 'conservative' label in much the same blunt instrument manner, as a dismissive derogatory akin to baby-eaters and fascists - it's just that conservatives tend to be so much better at condescension and insults.

Liberal has a long and honourable history as a political philosophy, and I wear that badge with pride (even in the current US definition of the term).

It's only negative if you are unsure of your ground. The modern-day US Democrats, for example, are so bereft of ideology that they run screaming from the word 'liberal' as if it were a curse. They should stand tall and try to convince the American voter that the liberal way is a good choice. If they can't do that honestly and forthrightly, and bring the people with them, then they have no right to expect power by stealth.

OK, I agree ... I think, atleast about the stealth part.

A Liberal cares about the whole of the society, about progressing to a future that includes all Americans. That includes improving the situation of all people in the world. They see beyond their own individual existance and desire that all of humanity share the wealth (in some manner) as they do. They also wish not to lose the middle-class as a buffer to the truely poor.

Where as, Conservatives, wish to limit the working man to an unlivable working wage ($5.25 an hour, no bonuses for overtime, no health insurance, no guaranteed retirement - if their company claims being poor while guaranteeing their CEOs with multi-million-billion dollar ones), a possition of accepting that Unions be illegal (the fireing of employees that desire a union is a good thing, to them), and a total return to the past. Preferably 1880 and the robber barrens - and a complete laize
faire, unrestricted by law business atmosphere (or, as the GOP likes to call it = deregulation, sounds so cool eh?). Conservatives do not wish to protect individuals rights (unless they are businesses), but to return us to a time where only businesses had rights. It has been the greatest propaganda program of my time.

It began with Agnew, whom despite being disgrace publicaly still earned millions after his Presidential pardon. He proved that even when a public figure gets caught, he can still make millions if he has the good on others - or he knows how to get away with it.

Lay, will spend less than a year in jail. Guaranteed, he knows something that could ruin atleast one top Bushy.

That Liberals are seen as cowardly is an illusion. It is a matter that the propaganda of the Right is all but overpowering in its ability to spew its rotgut venom.

Liberal:
Imagine, someone saying that America could be better than it is. And, that saying that could be used as an accusastion of that person's patriotism - their being challanged for accusing America for not being great. Imagine, someone stating that no person should be held in a prison for 4 years without being charged with a crime (Gitmo) - and being accused of supporting terrorism. Imagine, someone saying we need a widening of immigration that includes the families of people already here (Mexicans, etc.), they'ld be dead meat in the political theaters of the SouthWest - even though they would be correct morally (and for families, and eventually for the f'n GOP). Imagine, someone saying that we shouldnot have gone to war on the word of our "Wartime President" because he lied, or atleast his advisors did.
Or, just imagine that the only peeps that had the balls to say or question anything about the war in Iraq were Liberals .... and they were accused of being unpatriotic, not supporting the troops, being whoosys, hating America, liking the Dixie Chicks, not loving Big Oil, hating big business, and didn't appreciate the tax breaks for the wealthy. Damn Commy bastards - not loving the rich and all that Dubya has done for them and his family.

FDR, had his $1 a year men (all claiming to be Liberals) - not that they didn't benefit in other ways, but they didn't make anything directly from our taxes. Bush, has his hitmen - grab what you can now that everything is legal (just ask his Justice Department ... that stops investigation, oops FBI not directly under him) and gives the USA away. After all, God made him President. And, God said he should hated Liberals and all that defy him.

So, yeah, Liberals need to stand up. Thing is, more Conservatives are liberal than wish to accept the dirty term. Fact is, many that think of themselves as conserves are liberals. As in: liberals love this nation more, want it to remain the moral nation of the world and want the original values created by our constitution be extended to any that willingly embrace them. After all, values cannot be enforced on anyone - and if one has morals they realise that they are theirs, not someone else. Morals are personal - not national.

Turning the word "liberal" into a dirty word was a purely propagandic event. It took a word for caring about the future and turned it into meaning "weak", ineffective (which is what we have become), and unpatriotic (because we allowed it). Thing is, more men have died for liberalism in America than conservativism. No one has ever died for their family or offspring to stay stagnant - stagnant is what conservatism is all about.

Conservatists want things to return to the good old days of 1880 economics. To the poorer classes serving the military, and the wealthy gobbeling up the properties and wealth of those serving the nation. And, it's working.

You go girl -GOP.

[Lorenzo_H]

I'm conservative.

[Duke Malcolm]

It seems that in the past few years, "Liberal" has gone from a word to describe a point of view on the political spectrum to a derogatory term that conservatives use to label anyone that they disagree with.

Really? It is entirely converse here in the People's Republic. Liberal folks and Socialists use the word "conservative" and "Tory" as an offensive term...

[Scurvy]

It seems that in the past few years, "Liberal" has gone from a word to describe a point of view on the political spectrum to a derogatory term that conservatives use to label anyone that they disagree with.

i dont think its used as a derogatory term, although maybe as a label to people they disagree with - in which case its at least partly a view on the political spectrum...

[A.Saturnus]

It seems that in the past few years, "Liberal" has gone from a word to describe a point of view on the political spectrum to a derogatory term that conservatives use to label anyone that they disagree with. It's gotten so rampant that the liberals have found a new term to describe themselves: "Progressive," which sounds really wussy to me.

So I'm asking for your opinion on this. How do you feel about the downfall of "Liberal," how do use "Liberal," and what are your thoughts on "Progressive?"

*sigh* Liberals most often are conservative or centrist. There are also left-liberals who are right of socialists. I'm progressive and it's certainly not a wimp-out, it's a political and social point of view that is more than hundred years old. I think it even predates "liberal". Progressive thought and liberal thought can converge on some issues but are diametrically opposite on others.

[Reverend Joe]

"Progressive" and "Liberal" are almost the same thing. Liberal technically means an open-minded attitude, someone who is willing to process new ideas and see it from the other side's view. It does not mean leftist at all. It is the same with conservative and rightist; conservative means a very closeminded view of the world, only accepting it only one way and no other way. I, for one, am rather conservative; but I am also extremely far left. It's simple, really.

We need to go back to "leftwing" and "rightwing" so we quit confusing people.

[Banquo's Ghost]

I'm progressive and it's certainly not a wimp-out, it's a political and social point of view that is more than hundred years old. I think it even predates "liberal". Progressive thought and liberal thought can converge on some issues but are diametrically opposite on others.

Exactly, which is why it's a meaningless 'wimp out' for liberals to pretend they have some sort of ownership of the term - which is what I think the OP was asking - certainly what I was trying to say.

Real progressive politics are by no means a wimp out, in my opinion.

[Tachikaze]

I call myself a liberal mostly because of the reluctance of politicians today to use it for themselves. It's my anti-conservative, anti-Republican, anti-Right declaration. Since I tend to agree with the views attributed as "liberal", then it suits me fine.

But labeling me "left" or "liberal" is only half the story, for spiritually my world view is best described as Taoist/Buddhist. Political labels, like "liberal", cannot adequately explain the divisions within this forum community.

If you must use a political label, the left/right axis seems to be more universal, but just as limited.

[econ21]

I think the use of the one "liberal" by the US right is rather an own goal. The word has such fine connotations[1]. One could even say it poses the question: why do they hate freedom?

The European right (Hayek, the academic Thatcherites etc) are much smarter and try to steal the term for themselves. The centrists won't let them get away with it however. And with the death of socialism, it may be the only decent cloak us leftists have remaining. I mean - who thinks the term "social democrat" is sexy?

[1]Liberty (aka, " personal freedom from servitude or confinement or oppression"; "immunity from arbitrary exercise of authority: political independence"; "freedom of choice"); John Stuart Mill; Ellis Island; Liberty Ships ... I mean - who wants to be illiberal?

[Louis VI the Fat]

Liberal has had so many different meanings historically and geographically.

In a politico-philosophical sense, everybody is a liberal nowadays. The US constitution is a pivotal liberal document, the English, German and French enlightenment was liberal, if you believe in freedom and democracy you're a liberal.

In a political, contemporary sense, the meaning is more precise, but quite different between the US and in continental Europe. I'm not sure where the UK, Canada and others fit in.

Wiki: In the US, liberalism is usually understood to refer to modern liberalism, as contrasted with conservatism. American liberals endorse heavy regulation for business, a social welfare state, and support broad racial, ethnic, and religious tolerance, and thus more readily embrace multiculturalism, and affirmative action. In Europe, on the other hand, liberalism is not only contrasted with conservatism and Christian Democracy, but also with socialism and social democracy. In some countries, European liberals share common positions with Christian Democrats.

I am a liberal, that is, somewhat right of the centre.